<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="EN-US">I find this
discussion very intriguing and after having read many of the emails, especially
the last one of Paul, I would like to take part in.</span></p>







<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="EN-US">To begin
with, Paul claims</span><span style="" lang="EN-US"> ,amongst others,</span><span style="" lang="EN-US"> that "</span><span style="" lang="EN-GB"><span style="font-style: italic;">the authentic life is always a subversion, a
resistance, a revolution, against some attempt by someone else to bind it, to
bound it, to define it, to constrain it…</span>" whereas afterwards he states that "<span style="font-style: italic;">to
live authentically means to create in each moment something that cannot be taken
and used for other purposes because it is necessarily invisible to those who
would attempt such a theft</span>". To be honest I cannot follow this syllogism as I
find it a bit of oxymoron. More specifically, supposing that authentic life is
a revolution against some attempt to bind it, we simultaneously accept that
authentic is visible to its opponents or in other words to its exploiters. <br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="EN-GB">Furthermore,
Paul's final conclusion, which I find brilliant, is that "<span style="font-style: italic;">the really
interesting and revolutionary things going on in the world are invisible to
those who would oppose them</span>".&nbsp; <span style=""></span>Therefore, I believe
that the really revolutionary things are visible to their opponents, who,
however, fail to spot and feel the real essence of them - resembling humans despite that they can
see the flower and even smell it, they are incapable
of taking real advantage of it: humans can only cut (by &quot;killing&quot;) it, while bees succeed in channelling
bliss from it.&nbsp; <span style="">In that case both bees and humans can see the flower (it is not invisible) , but, to put it in Paul&#39;s terms, </span></span>the true substance of the experience -the authentic- belongs entirely to bees, and the superficial one to humans. 
<span style="" lang="EN-GB"><span style="">  </span></span><span style="" lang="EN-US"></span></p>

Best,<br><br>Vasilis<br><br>--<br><font size="1"><br><font size="2">Blog: <a href="http://vasilis-thesis.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://vasilis-thesis.blogspot.com/
</a><br><br><span class="sg">The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer alternatives</span>:<br><a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/Main_Page" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://p2pfoundation.net/Main_Page</a><br><a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">


http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/</a><br><a href="http://bloggr.p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://bloggr.p2pfoundation.net/</a> (under construction)</font><br>
</font><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 12/08/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Nicholas Ruiz III</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:editor@intertheory.org">editor@intertheory.org</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I appreciate the romance of this post; it is<br>utilitous, nonetheless...<br><br>If one chooses to romanticize and aestheticize<br>existence--this sentiment too, is utility pointed in a<br>certain direction, with a certain desire, for a
<br>certain outcome...an appropriation of utility.<br><br>Even the dead are utilized...<br><br>To dwell on utility, however, would for many be among<br>the least satisfying of existences.&nbsp;&nbsp;Then again,<br>financiers and market traders might disagree.
<br><br>NRIII<br><br><br>--- &quot;Paul B. Hartzog&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:paulbhartzog@gmail.com">paulbhartzog@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>&gt; After reading Sobol and Waxman, I thought I would<br>&gt; chime in.&nbsp;&nbsp;So far, I
<br>&gt; find this list incredibly useful to my own work and<br>&gt; am really enjoying<br>&gt; the discussions.&nbsp;&nbsp;That said, I continue thus....<br>&gt;<br>&gt; First, utility is tautological.&nbsp;&nbsp;If you decide that<br>&gt; human beings do
<br>&gt; things only for utility, then you will always find<br>&gt; the utility in any<br>&gt; action.&nbsp;&nbsp;Even suicide can be described as a<br>&gt; utilitarian action.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Second, the authentic, and to my mind<br>
&gt; non-utilitarian, experience of<br>&gt; life, has and always will be, beyond theft or<br>&gt; co-optation by &quot;the bad<br>&gt; guys.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;When I go to coffee with my friend and<br>&gt; discuss Aristotle,<br>&gt; money goes to those it perhaps shouldn&#39;t (
e.g. evil<br>&gt; coffee bean<br>&gt; slavers).&nbsp;&nbsp;Nonetheless, the substance of the<br>&gt; experience belongs<br>&gt; entirely to me and my friend.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; My difficulty with the analysis so far in this<br>&gt; thread is that I find
<br>&gt; it to be preoccupied with current online tools<br>&gt; rather than abstract<br>&gt; concepts.&nbsp;&nbsp;An alternate attempt might go something<br>&gt; like this:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Suppose that every moment of your life were visible,
<br>&gt; capturable,<br>&gt; collatable, analysable, (etc.) to others.&nbsp;&nbsp;Suppose<br>&gt; that EVERY act in<br>&gt; your life, that YOU tried to live authentically, was<br>&gt; also being used<br>&gt; for other purposes by someone else.&nbsp;&nbsp;How would you
<br>&gt; live?&nbsp;&nbsp;The answer,<br>&gt; possibly paradox, is that you would ignore it, and<br>&gt; in so doing you<br>&gt; would live in such a way that anyone who was<br>&gt; watching would be<br>&gt; incapable of seeing your true life at all.&nbsp;&nbsp;They
<br>&gt; would only see your<br>&gt; superficial movements, but all the while your inner<br>&gt; movement would<br>&gt; channel bliss.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; The authentic life is ALWAYS a subversion, a<br>&gt; resistance, a revolution,
<br>&gt; against some attempt by someone else to bind it, to<br>&gt; bound it, to<br>&gt; define it, to constrain it.&nbsp;&nbsp;To live authentically<br>&gt; means to create in<br>&gt; each moment something that cannot be taken and used
<br>&gt; for other purposes<br>&gt; because it is necessarily INVISIBLE to those who<br>&gt; would attempt such a<br>&gt; theft.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Consequently, in my own academic work (i.e.<br>&gt; logically), and also in my
<br>&gt; personal preference (i.e. aesthetically), I prefer<br>&gt; to keep my eyes<br>&gt; turned towards new forms of subversion, resistance,<br>&gt; and revolution<br>&gt; enable by new technologies.&nbsp;&nbsp;To my mind, the really
<br>&gt; interesting and<br>&gt; revolutionary things going on in the world are<br>&gt; invisible to those who<br>&gt; would oppose them.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Peace,<br>&gt; -Paul<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>--------------------------------------------------------
<br>&gt; <a href="http://www.PaulBHartzog.org">http://www.PaulBHartzog.org</a><br>&gt; <a href="http://www.panarchy.com">http://www.panarchy.com</a><br>&gt; <a href="mailto:PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org">PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org
</a><br>&gt; <a href="mailto:PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com">PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com</a><br>&gt; <a href="mailto:PHartzog@umich.edu">PHartzog@umich.edu</a><br>&gt;<br>--------------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt; The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;--Muriel Rukeyser<br>&gt;<br>&gt; See differently, then you will act differently.<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;--Paul B. Hartzog<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>
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<br>&gt; iDCref<br>&gt;<br><br><br>Dr. Nicholas Ruiz III<br>Editor, Kritikos<br><a href="http://intertheory.org">http://intertheory.org</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>iDC -- mailing list of the Institute for Distributed Creativity (
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