<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><br></font></div></blockquote><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>David, Jodi, Chris,<br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">David Clark's phrase 'We reject: kings, presidents and voting. We believe in: rough consensus and running code', in other words the 'test of worth' of functioning software together with the witnessing of that performance which will give a technical consensus to the solution to a (usually) technical problem. This I think helps unpacks the notion of 'justice' within particular spheres and allows us to look for moments when a test is being made, and whether that test has legitimacy and is accepted by the participants. <br> <br><br></div></blockquote><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>But isn't the presumption above still toward 'consensus' and then the dynamic is one that wants to achieve some form of 'rough' consensus as its outcome? Hence we are still operating in some very embedded way around a notion of the social contract, with all of a particular 'public' working toward an agreed goal, and in which a liberal framework of 'justice' finds its origins (if Foucault is right, then this is also the basis for neoliberalism and hence market-propelled forms of sociality).</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Wouldn't recursion insert an unpredictable - hence the potential for nonconsenual - element into the mix? Surely this is immanent to the dynamics of 'dynamic' (Terranova on the 'incompatible' in network dynamics, Spehr on the right to withdraw in 'free cooperation')?</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>If we are looking for moments when a test is being made we surely need to focus on the inventive failures (and noninventive ones too) that are produced in the wake of a test's 'crash or when a dynamic takes the sphere in an unpredictable direction. Otherwise we end up back with a notion of a public made up of 'user-testing', on a product that is in some way already 'agreed upon' . Sounds very much to me like prosumer-based capitalism! </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>best</div><div>Anna</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <br> <br> <br> Dean, Jodi wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:A9CB20B2E922894AB91C979CE39066F5F5E14C0699@EXMAIL.hws.edu" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Jodi says:
Another way to put this: the justice of the market is not the same as political justice.
Chris replies:
okay, i'll bite, what is the difference?
Jodi:
in a market, the agreement of buyer and seller makes something just; this is understood as price (under the assumption that markets achieve equilibrium).
there are different versions of political justice. some of these versions meet up and conflict with price, so:
--justice requires that some things not be sold, that some things have no price
--justice requires an equal outcome
--justice requires participation in the constitution of the site of exchange
--justice requires basic conditions that come prior to exchange
--justice requires mindfulness of the long term/future generations
with the last one, we get into different kinds of justice
--justice in rectifications
--justice in the distribution of responsibilities and rights
--the characteristics of just laws and procedures
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</pre> </blockquote> <br> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> <br> Dr David M. Berry<br> <br> Media and Communications Department<br> School of Arts<br> University of Wales Swansea<br> Swansea<br> SA2 8PP<br> Wales, UK<br> <br> Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:D.M.Berry@swansea.ac.uk">D.M.Berry@swansea.ac.uk</a><br> Tel: x2633<br> Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.swansea.ac.uk/staff/academic/Arts/berryd/">http://www.swansea.ac.uk/staff/academic/Arts/berryd/</a></div> </div> _______________________________________________<br>iDC -- mailing list of the Institute for Distributed Creativity (distributedcreativity.org)<br><a href="mailto:iDC@mailman.thing.net">iDC@mailman.thing.net</a><br>https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc<br><br>List Archive:<br>http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/<br><br>iDC Photo Stream:<br>http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/idcnetwork/<br><br>RSS feed:<br>http://rss.gmane.org/gmane.culture.media.idc<br><br>iDC Chat on Facebook:<br>http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2457237647<br><br>Share relevant URLs on Del.icio.us by adding the tag iDCref</blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><div><div><div><div>A/Prof. Anna Munster</div><div>Assistant Dean, Grant Support</div><div>Acting Director Centre for Contemporary Art and Politics</div><div>School of Art History and Art Education</div><div>College of Fine Arts</div><div>UNSW</div><div>P.O. Box 259</div><div>Paddington</div><div>NSW 2021</div><div>612 9385 0741 (tel)</div><div>612 9385 0615(fax)</div><div><a href="mailto:a.munster@unsw.edu.au">a.munster@unsw.edu.au</a></div><div><br></div><br></div></div><br><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br></div></div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></body></html>