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Hi,<br>
<br>
My name is Seeta Peña Gangadharan. I'm very new to this group. Just
caught wind of this particular thread and wanted to share a piece
that seems relevant to the conversation. <br>
<br>
The <a href="http://nms.sagepub.com/content/11/1-2/279.short">article</a>
is: "Mail Art: Networking without Technology." I looked at the
cultural practices of mail artists and other networked artists in
the San Francisco Bay Area, and how their work crossed paths with
early adopters of the internet (e.g., the virtual community of The
Well in the mid 80s). My argument had to do with the way that
networked art supported an emerging, tech-based discourse around
networked culture. The encounters between mail artists, other
networked artists, alternative arts groups like La Mamelle, and
folks at The Well served as important breeding ground for network
logics. These encounters were not exploring technical aspects of
digital networks per se... but cultural ones related to play
(pseudonymity, anonymity), egalitarianism, collaboration, and other
relational ideals.<br>
<br>
Related to Heidi's original questions, the connections between mail
art, pre-digital networked arts, net art, and more seem evident to
me, especially when considering the role of alternative arts groups
like La Mamelle. A whole slew of artists passed through this
community of practice; and while some stayed within their own,
original domains, others moved from one medium to the next and
experimented in new ways. The sum of experiences, I think,
contributed to current day understandings and experiences of network
culture.<br>
<br>
Anyway... sounds like an amazing project and I wish you the best
with it.<br>
<br>
Seeta<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/19/10 9:44 AM, Radhika Gajjala wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTin0abhLOwHL88-+MERUrXSogPp61FKrQ9nVJi0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Good point Aharon.<br>
<br>
might be� a good idea to start doing a search for locative media
(art) as well... and see how it connects/relates to the notion of
networked art<br>
<br>
Dale Hudson and Patricia Zimmerman have some work about Locative
media where they talk about the <br>
spatio-temporal reconfiguring that that reflects...<br>
<br>
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</style><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Hudson, D.,
& Zimmermann, P. R. (2009). TAKING
THINGS APART: LOCATIVE MEDIA, MIGRATORY ARCHIVES, AND
MICROPUBLICS. <i style="">Afterimage</i>, 36(4), 15-19.</span>
<br>
<br>
also - I dont know how many of you are also on the Air-l list proc
- but recently there was an exchange about MMORPGS and Virtual
worlds and<br>
someone fwded a link to a thesis that does an interesting critique
that in my reading dislodges the ever continuing binary of virtual
and real in the<br>
way that we articulate our research projects... (see <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://info.tse.fi/julkaisut/vk/Ae11_2009.pdf"
target="_blank">http://info.tse.fi/julkaisut/vk/Ae11_2009.pdf</a>
)<br>
<br>
r<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 7:02 PM, <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aha@aharonic.net">aha@aharonic.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Heidi and all,<br>
<br>
I do, like Brian, think you are researching a very very
interesting subject.<br>
<br>
However reading through the posts a question came up. Can it
be that<br>
the very interesting struggles/questions you are having are
precisely<br>
because art you refer to resists definitions based on
materiality,<br>
media, concepts, political stance, locality, etc..?<br>
<br>
All the best!<br>
<br>
Aharon<br>
xx<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Heidi May <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mayh@ecuad.ca">mayh@ecuad.ca</a>>:<br>
<br>
> Armin,<br>
><br>
> Thanks for your thoughts. I will have to read over
your links and<br>
> think more about all of this. I really appreciate
your input.<br>
><br>
> For now though, I do want to clarify that I don't
intend to take a<br>
> technology-neutral view of networks, I just don't
want to over-<br>
> emphasize the technology of the networks. And in
order to do, I feel<br>
> that certain theories of being (ie. Jean-Luc Nancy)
might better<br>
> inform a fuller and broader understanding of the
notion of network and<br>
> network culture. I'm also influenced by Kazys
Varnelis's writing "The<br>
> Immediated Now: Network Culture and the Poetics of
Reality"<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://varnelis.networkedbook.org/the-immediated-now-network-culture-and-the-poetics-of-reality/"
target="_blank">http://varnelis.networkedbook.org/the-immediated-now-network-culture-and-the-poetics-of-reality/</a><br>
><br>
> I am now wondering if there was something in what I
wrote that gave<br>
> you that impression (I will have to examine that
more, maybe there is<br>
> something I don't see in how I am communicating my
interests). It<br>
> could be that I didn't clearly express what I perhaps
take for granted<br>
> with my work, in that this is a critical inquiry into
the role<br>
> technology plays in our lives. For me, it is quite
obvious what the<br>
> advantages are and I think people see this quite
clearly, and perhaps<br>
> they see clearly the strong disadvantages. However,
I'm interested in<br>
> exploring the complexity and what is not made
visible. Yes, in some<br>
> cases, this may be the abstract qualities and the
symbolic exchanges<br>
> and the potential for learning. But...the theories of
learning I refer<br>
> to discuss how we often actually learn through
conflict and<br>
> difference, through situations of tension.<br>
><br>
> "Similar to see mail art as a predecessor for net art
is all well in a<br>
> certain sense but in another way it is a bit
misleading. networks are<br>
> now near ubiquituous, you have them on your phone and
on your<br>
> computer, you have them even in quite remote areas.
networks and<br>
> computation are still the major driving engine of
economic growth -<br>
> which is something you cant say of the postal
networks of the<br>
> 1960s-70s."<br>
> -- Yes, I'm glad you are pointing these things out as
it is keeping me<br>
> in check with the complexity of my research.<br>
><br>
> "Now those net-entrepreneurs still understand the net
much better than<br>
> many artists and theorists which is unfortunate
because what they are<br>
> planning is both admirably smart and really evil and
goes on unchecked<br>
> if people like us focus on producing beautiful ideas
on the symbolic<br>
> layer alone. Castells made a big effort to understand
the net but his<br>
> assessment is too optimistic and he fetishises the
network form, so in<br>
> the end he is deterministic."<br>
> -- I definitely don't want to rely on Castells, or
any one theorist.<br>
> So, I'm wondering if there is anything you feel,
based on your<br>
> experience with thinking about all of this, that
artists and educators<br>
> of artists should be doing in this area (in the ideal
situation of<br>
> course). Speaking as an artist educator, how should
we be<br>
> incorporating this subject matter into the projects
we assign to art<br>
> students at universities and colleges? How can we
push artists and<br>
> theorists forward to participate more with
understandings of the net?<br>
> Do you see ANY value at all in revisiting pre-digital
network<br>
> practices and perhaps extending some of that
thinking/working into<br>
> explorations of current networks, and the
relationships that transpire<br>
> and exit with/in the networks? Is philosophical
thinking of us AS the<br>
> network helpful in any way and, if so, how can we
integrate this into<br>
> art education?<br>
><br>
> Things to think about if you have the time....and
hopefully you do!<br>
><br>
> Heidi<br>
><br>
> On 16-Dec-10, at 11:30 PM, Armin Medosch wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Heidi,<br>
>><br>
>> I think a similar approach to yours was tried by
Simon Pope when he<br>
>> curated the travelling exhibition Art for
Networks in 2002. You can<br>
>> find<br>
>> a review here: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.a-n.co.uk/interface/reviews/single/67732"
target="_blank">http://www.a-n.co.uk/interface/reviews/single/67732</a><br>
>> It has been quite a while ago and I don't want to
misrepresent Simon's<br>
>> views (you can find an interview here where he
explains his intentions<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sites.google.com/site/ambulantscience/Index/texts"
target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/ambulantscience/Index/texts</a>)<br>
>> but as far as I understood he wanted to establish
a richer and<br>
>> technology neutral understanding of networks;
this at a time just a<br>
>> few<br>
>> years after some artists who were seen at the
time to be leading<br>
>> net.artists had very publicly resigned.<br>
>><br>
>> In my catalogue contribution I consciously
focused on wrieless free<br>
>> community networks to highlight the physicality
and reality of<br>
>> networks<br>
>> and that building networks _can_ be concomitant
with building<br>
>> communities (which is very different from saying
that networks foster<br>
>> communities which was one of the tropes of the
1990s).<br>
>><br>
>> The problem with a technology-neutral view of
networks and<br>
>> highlighting<br>
>> just the processes and communications is that you
are engaging only<br>
>> with<br>
>> one specific layer, the top layer of symbolic
exchanges and human<br>
>> understandable meanings. Below that however are
several other layers<br>
>> which shape those communications insofar as they
make possible certain<br>
>> things and disallow others. By ignoring all those
layers they become a<br>
>> technological subconsious, a repressed which will
return, demand its<br>
>> right to be recognised. It is like you want to
talk about the beauty<br>
>> of<br>
>> mobility culture, i.e. cars without acknowledging
that they are a<br>
>> disaster for the environment in quite many ways.<br>
>><br>
>> Similar to see mail art as a predecessor for net
art is all well in a<br>
>> certain sense but in another way it is a bit
misleading. networks are<br>
>> now near ubiquituous, you have them on your phone
and on your<br>
>> computer,<br>
>> you have them even in quite remote areas.
networks and computation are<br>
>> still the major driving engine of economic growth
- which is something<br>
>> you cant say of the postal networks of the
1960s-70s. For instance,<br>
>> reading an article on Google recently in the FT
the author pointed out<br>
>> how it was Google's strategy to use the mobile
phone operating system<br>
>> Android to also get into people's homes, to
become part of the<br>
>> infrastructure of networked households. Now
that's a viral strategy<br>
>> which is absolutely really stunning as it is
based on a dialectics<br>
>> between being very small, very viral, just a
piece of software, a<br>
>> widget<br>
>> voluntarily installed by people on their own
phones, and this being<br>
>> brought together at the back end in giant data
warehouses which<br>
>> harvest<br>
>> ever more knowledge about people and their
relationships.<br>
>><br>
>> Now those net-entrepreneurs still understand the
net much better than<br>
>> any artists and theorists which is unfortunate
because what they are<br>
>> planning is both admirably smart and really evil
and goes on unchecked<br>
>> if people like us focus on producing beautiful
ideas on the symbolic<br>
>> layer alone. Castells made a big effort to
understand the net but his<br>
>> assessment is too optimistic and he fetishises
the network form, so in<br>
>> the end he is deterministic. Maybe the question
will soon be how we<br>
>> defend ourselves against networks, you know,
skynet and all that ;-)<br>
>><br>
>> regards<br>
>> Armin<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:18 -0800, Heidi May
wrote:<br>
>>> What is network and/ or networked art?<br>
>>> The main question is quite simple, but as you
will see I have been<br>
>>> delving into philosophy and art history to
get to a better<br>
>>> understanding of the meaning of "network" in
art:<br>
>>><br>
>>> For the past several months I have been
thinking deeply about this. I<br>
>>><br>
>>> spent the summer working on comprehensive
exam papers for my current<br>
>>> PhD program, in which I defined for myself a
definition of networked<br>
>>> art that I felt was perhaps a challenge to
the mainstream notion of<br>
>>> �network�. Without getting too much into the
literature I based this<br>
>>> on (ie. Jean-Luc Nancy), I argued that by
using the word network, the<br>
>>><br>
>>> Internet itself is predominant over any other
associations we might<br>
>>> have (see Sack, 2007 on �network aesthetics�)
and that if artist<br>
>>> educators focus more on what emerges within
the relations and<br>
>>> processes of a network, such as with Internet
art, then we can<br>
>>> perhaps<br>
>>> gain new understandings of network culture
that reflect more the<br>
>>> sociocultural aspects as opposed to just the
technological aspects. I<br>
>>><br>
>>> refer to Fluxus practices, most specifically
mail art, and the ideas<br>
>>> explored by George Maciunas and Robert
Filliou, connecting this to<br>
>>> later relational art and participatory art
practices. My interests<br>
>>> pertain to aspects of what I am calling
�relational learning,� thus I<br>
>>><br>
>>> see these networked forms of art to be
significant...yet not just in<br>
>>> terms of individuals collaborating, but most
importantly on the<br>
>>> emergent knowledge that occurs in these
processes.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Within my recent writing, I suggest that we
need to expand our<br>
>>> understanding of networked art in order to
obtain new understandings<br>
>>> of network culture. I have been defining
�networked art� as the<br>
>>> following:<br>
>>><br>
>>> �...practices not based on art objects, nor
digital instruments, but<br>
>>> on the relationships and processes that occur
between individuals<br>
>>> (Bazzichelli, 2008; Kimbell, 2006; Saper,
2001)....Networked art,<br>
>>> sometimes described as participation art
(Frieling, Pellico, &<br>
>>> Zimbardo, 2008), consists of multiple
connections made through<br>
>>> generative processes, often, but not always,
incorporating digital<br>
>>> technology. In many cases, the production and
dissemination processes<br>
>>><br>
>>> become the artwork itself.�<br>
>>><br>
>>> �....New understandings of network culture
may require us to<br>
>>> understand that technology enables social and
economic activities, as<br>
>>><br>
>>> opposed to something that determines society
(Castells, 2001). This<br>
>>> research will examine how art addresses
aspects of network culture,<br>
>>> in<br>
>>> terms of it being a sociocultural shift that
is not limited to<br>
>>> digital<br>
>>> technology (Varnelis, 2008)...By employing a
broader understanding of<br>
>>><br>
>>> the notion of network within analysis of
networked art, this research<br>
>>><br>
>>> aims to provide deeper understandings of
network culture...�<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> But after sitting with these ideas for awhile
now and being<br>
>>> confronted<br>
>>> with needing to write a research proposal,
I�m in the doubting phase<br>
>>> that I think all graduate students go
through. Is it really possible<br>
>>> to use the term �networked art� in the way I
would like to without it<br>
>>><br>
>>> immediately conjuring up digital practices
alone? (even though I<br>
>>> acknowledge this in my argument) Am I just
confusing things by saying<br>
>>><br>
>>> that I am indeed interested in Internet art
practices but only<br>
>>> aspects<br>
>>> I have defined above, and particularly in
cases of artists who<br>
>>> are interdisciplinary vs. strictly �digital�?
Do people think about<br>
>>> the differences between �network art� and
networked art� the same way<br>
>>><br>
>>> they might have distinguished between �net
art� and �net.art�? In my<br>
>>> writing, I opted to go with �networked� over
�network� because there<br>
>>> is more emphasis on being within a process
(verb. vs. noun), but now<br>
>>> I�m starting to regret that, thinking that
�networked� might clearly<br>
>>> imply dependence on an electronic system
whereas a �network� might<br>
>>> allow for more human connection. (For those
who are familiar....I am<br>
>>> a<br>
>>> bit torn between Craig Saper�s (2001) use of
the term �networked art�<br>
>>><br>
>>> and Tom Corby�s (2006) use of the term
�network art�)<br>
>>><br>
>>> To make matters somewhat worse, I've been
told by someone I respect<br>
>>> in<br>
>>> this area that the notion of "network" is not
heavily dependent on<br>
>>> "internet," considering the long history of
network associations<br>
>>> before the internet. But this is someone who
is quite knowledgeable<br>
>>> of<br>
>>> network notions in academia and English
literature, and I question if<br>
>>><br>
>>> those outside of academia feel the same way
today. Speaking as an<br>
>>> artist who teaching art at universities and
college, I feel that<br>
>>> "networked art" is immediately associated
with digital and new media.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thoughts? Opinions?<br>
>>><br>
>>> thanks,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Heidi May<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ..................<br>
>>> HEIDI MAY<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://heidimay.ca" target="_blank">http://heidimay.ca</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://postself.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://postself.wordpress.com</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://heidimay.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://heidimay.wordpress.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Instructor, Emily Carr University of Art +
Design.<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ecuad.ca/people/profile/14163"
target="_blank">http://www.ecuad.ca/people/profile/14163</a><br>
>>> PhD student, University of British Columbia.
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://edcp.educ.ubc.ca/"
target="_blank">http://edcp.educ.ubc.ca/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
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target="_blank">http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/</a><br>
<br>
iDC Photo Stream:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/idcnetwork/"
target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/idcnetwork/</a><br>
<br>
RSS feed:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rss.gmane.org/gmane.culture.media.idc"
target="_blank">http://rss.gmane.org/gmane.culture.media.idc</a><br>
<br>
iDC Chat on Facebook:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2457237647"
target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2457237647</a><br>
<br>
Share relevant URLs on <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://Del.icio.us" target="_blank">Del.icio.us</a>
by adding the tag iDCref</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Radhika Gajjala<br>
Director, American Culture Studies<br>
Professor of Communication Studies and Cultural Studies<br>
101 East Hall<br>
Bowling Green State University<br>
Bowling Green, OH� 43403<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://personal.bgsu.edu/%7Eradhik">http://personal.bgsu.edu/~radhik</a><br>
<br>
<pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
iDC -- mailing list of the Institute for Distributed Creativity (distributedcreativity.org)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:iDC@mailman.thing.net">iDC@mailman.thing.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc">https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc</a>
List Archive:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/">http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/</a>
iDC Photo Stream:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/idcnetwork/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/idcnetwork/</a>
RSS feed:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rss.gmane.org/gmane.culture.media.idc">http://rss.gmane.org/gmane.culture.media.idc</a>
iDC Chat on Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2457237647">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2457237647</a>
Share relevant URLs on Del.icio.us by adding the tag iDCref</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Seeta Peña Gangadharan, Ph.D Candidate
Department of Communication
Stanford University
p: +1.415.377.5069
f: +1.415.869.3720
e: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:whoa@stanford.edu">whoa@stanford.edu</a></pre>
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