Good point Aharon.<br><br>might be a good idea to start doing a search for locative media (art) as well... and see how it connects/relates to the notion of networked art<br><br>Dale Hudson and Patricia Zimmerman have some work about Locative media where they talk about the <br>
spatio-temporal reconfiguring that that reflects...<br><br>
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<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial;">Hudson, D., & Zimmermann, P. R. (2009). TAKING
THINGS APART: LOCATIVE MEDIA, MIGRATORY ARCHIVES, AND MICROPUBLICS. <i style="">Afterimage</i>, 36(4), 15-19.</span>
<br><br>also - I dont know how many of you are also on the Air-l list proc - but recently there was an exchange about MMORPGS and Virtual worlds and<br>someone fwded a link to a thesis that does an interesting critique that in my reading dislodges the ever continuing binary of virtual and real in the<br>
way that we articulate our research projects... (see <br>
<a href="http://info.tse.fi/julkaisut/vk/Ae11_2009.pdf" target="_blank">http://info.tse.fi/julkaisut/vk/Ae11_2009.pdf</a> )<br><br>r<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 7:02 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aha@aharonic.net">aha@aharonic.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Heidi and all,<br>
<br>
I do, like Brian, think you are researching a very very interesting subject.<br>
<br>
However reading through the posts a question came up. Can it be that<br>
the very interesting struggles/questions you are having are precisely<br>
because art you refer to resists definitions based on materiality,<br>
media, concepts, political stance, locality, etc..?<br>
<br>
All the best!<br>
<br>
Aharon<br>
xx<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Heidi May <<a href="mailto:mayh@ecuad.ca">mayh@ecuad.ca</a>>:<br>
<br>
> Armin,<br>
><br>
> Thanks for your thoughts. I will have to read over your links and<br>
> think more about all of this. I really appreciate your input.<br>
><br>
> For now though, I do want to clarify that I don't intend to take a<br>
> technology-neutral view of networks, I just don't want to over-<br>
> emphasize the technology of the networks. And in order to do, I feel<br>
> that certain theories of being (ie. Jean-Luc Nancy) might better<br>
> inform a fuller and broader understanding of the notion of network and<br>
> network culture. I'm also influenced by Kazys Varnelis's writing "The<br>
> Immediated Now: Network Culture and the Poetics of Reality"<br>
> <a href="http://varnelis.networkedbook.org/the-immediated-now-network-culture-and-the-poetics-of-reality/" target="_blank">http://varnelis.networkedbook.org/the-immediated-now-network-culture-and-the-poetics-of-reality/</a><br>
><br>
> I am now wondering if there was something in what I wrote that gave<br>
> you that impression (I will have to examine that more, maybe there is<br>
> something I don't see in how I am communicating my interests). It<br>
> could be that I didn't clearly express what I perhaps take for granted<br>
> with my work, in that this is a critical inquiry into the role<br>
> technology plays in our lives. For me, it is quite obvious what the<br>
> advantages are and I think people see this quite clearly, and perhaps<br>
> they see clearly the strong disadvantages. However, I'm interested in<br>
> exploring the complexity and what is not made visible. Yes, in some<br>
> cases, this may be the abstract qualities and the symbolic exchanges<br>
> and the potential for learning. But...the theories of learning I refer<br>
> to discuss how we often actually learn through conflict and<br>
> difference, through situations of tension.<br>
><br>
> "Similar to see mail art as a predecessor for net art is all well in a<br>
> certain sense but in another way it is a bit misleading. networks are<br>
> now near ubiquituous, you have them on your phone and on your<br>
> computer, you have them even in quite remote areas. networks and<br>
> computation are still the major driving engine of economic growth -<br>
> which is something you cant say of the postal networks of the<br>
> 1960s-70s."<br>
> -- Yes, I'm glad you are pointing these things out as it is keeping me<br>
> in check with the complexity of my research.<br>
><br>
> "Now those net-entrepreneurs still understand the net much better than<br>
> many artists and theorists which is unfortunate because what they are<br>
> planning is both admirably smart and really evil and goes on unchecked<br>
> if people like us focus on producing beautiful ideas on the symbolic<br>
> layer alone. Castells made a big effort to understand the net but his<br>
> assessment is too optimistic and he fetishises the network form, so in<br>
> the end he is deterministic."<br>
> -- I definitely don't want to rely on Castells, or any one theorist.<br>
> So, I'm wondering if there is anything you feel, based on your<br>
> experience with thinking about all of this, that artists and educators<br>
> of artists should be doing in this area (in the ideal situation of<br>
> course). Speaking as an artist educator, how should we be<br>
> incorporating this subject matter into the projects we assign to art<br>
> students at universities and colleges? How can we push artists and<br>
> theorists forward to participate more with understandings of the net?<br>
> Do you see ANY value at all in revisiting pre-digital network<br>
> practices and perhaps extending some of that thinking/working into<br>
> explorations of current networks, and the relationships that transpire<br>
> and exit with/in the networks? Is philosophical thinking of us AS the<br>
> network helpful in any way and, if so, how can we integrate this into<br>
> art education?<br>
><br>
> Things to think about if you have the time....and hopefully you do!<br>
><br>
> Heidi<br>
><br>
> On 16-Dec-10, at 11:30 PM, Armin Medosch wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Heidi,<br>
>><br>
>> I think a similar approach to yours was tried by Simon Pope when he<br>
>> curated the travelling exhibition Art for Networks in 2002. You can<br>
>> find<br>
>> a review here: <a href="http://www.a-n.co.uk/interface/reviews/single/67732" target="_blank">http://www.a-n.co.uk/interface/reviews/single/67732</a><br>
>> It has been quite a while ago and I don't want to misrepresent Simon's<br>
>> views (you can find an interview here where he explains his intentions<br>
>> <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/ambulantscience/Index/texts" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/ambulantscience/Index/texts</a>)<br>
>> but as far as I understood he wanted to establish a richer and<br>
>> technology neutral understanding of networks; this at a time just a<br>
>> few<br>
>> years after some artists who were seen at the time to be leading<br>
>> net.artists had very publicly resigned.<br>
>><br>
>> In my catalogue contribution I consciously focused on wrieless free<br>
>> community networks to highlight the physicality and reality of<br>
>> networks<br>
>> and that building networks _can_ be concomitant with building<br>
>> communities (which is very different from saying that networks foster<br>
>> communities which was one of the tropes of the 1990s).<br>
>><br>
>> The problem with a technology-neutral view of networks and<br>
>> highlighting<br>
>> just the processes and communications is that you are engaging only<br>
>> with<br>
>> one specific layer, the top layer of symbolic exchanges and human<br>
>> understandable meanings. Below that however are several other layers<br>
>> which shape those communications insofar as they make possible certain<br>
>> things and disallow others. By ignoring all those layers they become a<br>
>> technological subconsious, a repressed which will return, demand its<br>
>> right to be recognised. It is like you want to talk about the beauty<br>
>> of<br>
>> mobility culture, i.e. cars without acknowledging that they are a<br>
>> disaster for the environment in quite many ways.<br>
>><br>
>> Similar to see mail art as a predecessor for net art is all well in a<br>
>> certain sense but in another way it is a bit misleading. networks are<br>
>> now near ubiquituous, you have them on your phone and on your<br>
>> computer,<br>
>> you have them even in quite remote areas. networks and computation are<br>
>> still the major driving engine of economic growth - which is something<br>
>> you cant say of the postal networks of the 1960s-70s. For instance,<br>
>> reading an article on Google recently in the FT the author pointed out<br>
>> how it was Google's strategy to use the mobile phone operating system<br>
>> Android to also get into people's homes, to become part of the<br>
>> infrastructure of networked households. Now that's a viral strategy<br>
>> which is absolutely really stunning as it is based on a dialectics<br>
>> between being very small, very viral, just a piece of software, a<br>
>> widget<br>
>> voluntarily installed by people on their own phones, and this being<br>
>> brought together at the back end in giant data warehouses which<br>
>> harvest<br>
>> ever more knowledge about people and their relationships.<br>
>><br>
>> Now those net-entrepreneurs still understand the net much better than<br>
>> any artists and theorists which is unfortunate because what they are<br>
>> planning is both admirably smart and really evil and goes on unchecked<br>
>> if people like us focus on producing beautiful ideas on the symbolic<br>
>> layer alone. Castells made a big effort to understand the net but his<br>
>> assessment is too optimistic and he fetishises the network form, so in<br>
>> the end he is deterministic. Maybe the question will soon be how we<br>
>> defend ourselves against networks, you know, skynet and all that ;-)<br>
>><br>
>> regards<br>
>> Armin<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:18 -0800, Heidi May wrote:<br>
>>> What is network and/ or networked art?<br>
>>> The main question is quite simple, but as you will see I have been<br>
>>> delving into philosophy and art history to get to a better<br>
>>> understanding of the meaning of "network" in art:<br>
>>><br>
>>> For the past several months I have been thinking deeply about this. I<br>
>>><br>
>>> spent the summer working on comprehensive exam papers for my current<br>
>>> PhD program, in which I defined for myself a definition of networked<br>
>>> art that I felt was perhaps a challenge to the mainstream notion of<br>
>>> “network”. Without getting too much into the literature I based this<br>
>>> on (ie. Jean-Luc Nancy), I argued that by using the word network, the<br>
>>><br>
>>> Internet itself is predominant over any other associations we might<br>
>>> have (see Sack, 2007 on “network aesthetics”) and that if artist<br>
>>> educators focus more on what emerges within the relations and<br>
>>> processes of a network, such as with Internet art, then we can<br>
>>> perhaps<br>
>>> gain new understandings of network culture that reflect more the<br>
>>> sociocultural aspects as opposed to just the technological aspects. I<br>
>>><br>
>>> refer to Fluxus practices, most specifically mail art, and the ideas<br>
>>> explored by George Maciunas and Robert Filliou, connecting this to<br>
>>> later relational art and participatory art practices. My interests<br>
>>> pertain to aspects of what I am calling “relational learning,” thus I<br>
>>><br>
>>> see these networked forms of art to be significant...yet not just in<br>
>>> terms of individuals collaborating, but most importantly on the<br>
>>> emergent knowledge that occurs in these processes.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Within my recent writing, I suggest that we need to expand our<br>
>>> understanding of networked art in order to obtain new understandings<br>
>>> of network culture. I have been defining “networked art” as the<br>
>>> following:<br>
>>><br>
>>> “...practices not based on art objects, nor digital instruments, but<br>
>>> on the relationships and processes that occur between individuals<br>
>>> (Bazzichelli, 2008; Kimbell, 2006; Saper, 2001)....Networked art,<br>
>>> sometimes described as participation art (Frieling, Pellico, &<br>
>>> Zimbardo, 2008), consists of multiple connections made through<br>
>>> generative processes, often, but not always, incorporating digital<br>
>>> technology. In many cases, the production and dissemination processes<br>
>>><br>
>>> become the artwork itself.”<br>
>>><br>
>>> “....New understandings of network culture may require us to<br>
>>> understand that technology enables social and economic activities, as<br>
>>><br>
>>> opposed to something that determines society (Castells, 2001). This<br>
>>> research will examine how art addresses aspects of network culture,<br>
>>> in<br>
>>> terms of it being a sociocultural shift that is not limited to<br>
>>> digital<br>
>>> technology (Varnelis, 2008)...By employing a broader understanding of<br>
>>><br>
>>> the notion of network within analysis of networked art, this research<br>
>>><br>
>>> aims to provide deeper understandings of network culture...”<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> But after sitting with these ideas for awhile now and being<br>
>>> confronted<br>
>>> with needing to write a research proposal, I’m in the doubting phase<br>
>>> that I think all graduate students go through. Is it really possible<br>
>>> to use the term “networked art” in the way I would like to without it<br>
>>><br>
>>> immediately conjuring up digital practices alone? (even though I<br>
>>> acknowledge this in my argument) Am I just confusing things by saying<br>
>>><br>
>>> that I am indeed interested in Internet art practices but only<br>
>>> aspects<br>
>>> I have defined above, and particularly in cases of artists who<br>
>>> are interdisciplinary vs. strictly “digital”? Do people think about<br>
>>> the differences between “network art” and networked art” the same way<br>
>>><br>
>>> they might have distinguished between “net art” and “net.art”? In my<br>
>>> writing, I opted to go with “networked” over “network” because there<br>
>>> is more emphasis on being within a process (verb. vs. noun), but now<br>
>>> I’m starting to regret that, thinking that “networked” might clearly<br>
>>> imply dependence on an electronic system whereas a “network” might<br>
>>> allow for more human connection. (For those who are familiar....I am<br>
>>> a<br>
>>> bit torn between Craig Saper’s (2001) use of the term “networked art”<br>
>>><br>
>>> and Tom Corby’s (2006) use of the term “network art”)<br>
>>><br>
>>> To make matters somewhat worse, I've been told by someone I respect<br>
>>> in<br>
>>> this area that the notion of "network" is not heavily dependent on<br>
>>> "internet," considering the long history of network associations<br>
>>> before the internet. But this is someone who is quite knowledgeable<br>
>>> of<br>
>>> network notions in academia and English literature, and I question if<br>
>>><br>
>>> those outside of academia feel the same way today. Speaking as an<br>
>>> artist who teaching art at universities and college, I feel that<br>
>>> "networked art" is immediately associated with digital and new media.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thoughts? Opinions?<br>
>>><br>
>>> thanks,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Heidi May<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> ..................<br>
>>> HEIDI MAY<br>
>>> <a href="http://heidimay.ca" target="_blank">http://heidimay.ca</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://postself.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://postself.wordpress.com</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://heidimay.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://heidimay.wordpress.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Instructor, Emily Carr University of Art + Design.<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.ecuad.ca/people/profile/14163" target="_blank">http://www.ecuad.ca/people/profile/14163</a><br>
>>> PhD student, University of British Columbia. <a href="http://edcp.educ.ubc.ca/" target="_blank">http://edcp.educ.ubc.ca/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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Share relevant URLs on <a href="http://Del.icio.us" target="_blank">Del.icio.us</a> by adding the tag iDCref</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Radhika Gajjala<br>Director, American Culture Studies<br>
Professor of Communication Studies and Cultural Studies<br>101 East Hall<br>Bowling Green State University<br>Bowling Green, OH 43403<br><br><a href="http://personal.bgsu.edu/~radhik">http://personal.bgsu.edu/~radhik</a><br>
<br>