i meant that 'most' of the people who are 'on streets in cairo' and 'tweeting and claiming hashtag space' are journalists/bloggers.<br>and of course not that most of the people on streets in cairo are journalists or bloggers.<br>
and clearly did not imply that demonstrations do not matter.<br><br><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">sumandro</span><br><br>On 2/4/11 10:00 AM, "Judith Rodenbeck" <<a href="mailto:jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu">jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
"Most of" the people in Tahrir Square are NOT journalists/bloggers! And
they are communicating with hands and voices, giving the conditional lie
to the notion that demonstrations don't matter. The self-involvement of
"new media" folk is breathtaking.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Feb 4, 2011, at 7:27 AM, sumandro wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> Why are people on streets in Cairo are tweeting and claiming
hashtag spaces? Only because most of them are journalists/bloggers and
they require the global audience for their living? How does tweeting
from the streets change their experiences and future experiences of
those streets?<br>
><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 9:27 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:idc-request@mailman.thing.net">idc-request@mailman.thing.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Send iDC mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc" target="_blank">https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:idc-request@mailman.thing.net">idc-request@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:idc-owner@mailman.thing.net">idc-owner@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of iDC digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: <nettime> Egyptian Revolution: 2nd decolonialisation for<br>
all (sumandro)<br>
2. on networks and revolutions (Nicholas Mirzoeff)<br>
3. Re: <nettime> Egyptian Revolution: 2nd decolonialisation for<br>
all (Judith Rodenbeck)<br>
4. Re: <nettime> Egyptian Revolution: 2nd decolonialisation for<br>
all (Saul Ostrow)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 17:57:49 +0530<br>
From: sumandro <<a href="mailto:sumandro@gmail.com">sumandro@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [iDC] <nettime> Egyptian Revolution: 2nd<br>
decolonialisation for all<br>
To: <a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<AANLkTim=<a href="mailto:WiOV3AExKgGZRZBpMky3PJ-tRFW4udvnQ8b_@mail.gmail.com">WiOV3AExKgGZRZBpMky3PJ-tRFW4udvnQ8b_@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
"#Tahrir Square sits firmly at the intersections of inequality, revolution,<br>
architecture of power and urban gaming (and of course uncountable other idea<br>
and action flows).<br>
<br>
A historical site of protests of revolts, almost determined by the built<br>
configuration of crucial building along the edge of the square, openness of<br>
which simultaneously makes the protesters vulnerable to indiscriminate<br>
violence. The space is proceduarally generated through human action, from<br>
under-domination of the police of the space-eater giant, to the very symbol<br>
of ?liberation? and gathering ground of a million to killing ground without<br>
shelter to the front-line-of-battle moving to 6th Oct Bridge as<br>
@sharifkouddous <<a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/sharifkouddous" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/#%21/sharifkouddous</a>> tweets just now.<br>
<br>
Is Hosni Mubarak a creation of that city-space with #Tahrir Square as the<br>
center? Can he be only defeated by moving the front line of battle to 6th<br>
Oct Bridge of elsewhere? But #Tahrir Square is also a procedurally generated<br>
virtual (voyeuristic? supportive? emotional?) gathering space every time<br>
somebody searches for the hashtag. And there are battles for hashtag spaces<br>
as @Jan25voices <<a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/Jan25voices" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/#%21/Jan25voices</a>> and other prominent<br>
occupiers of that space come under hashtagged criticism.<br>
<br>
Why are people on streets in Cairo are tweeting and claiming hashtag spaces?<br>
Only because most of them are journalists/bloggers and they require the<br>
global audience for their living? How does tweeting from the streets change<br>
their experiences and future experiences of those streets?<br>
<br>
Much of how we talk about ?spaces? and ?cities? emerged from similar days in<br>
France and elsewhere of late 1960s. How is #Tahrir Square going to change<br>
how we talk about contemporary world cities, and live and play in them?"<br>
<br>
more: <a href="http://popupcity.net/2011/02/hybrid-urban-games-and-tahrir-square/" target="_blank">http://popupcity.net/2011/02/hybrid-urban-games-and-tahrir-square/</a><br>
<br>
sumandro<br>
<br>
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 5:30 PM, <<a href="mailto:idc-request@mailman.thing.net">idc-request@mailman.thing.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Send iDC mailing list submissions to<br>
> <a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
><br>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
> <a href="https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc" target="_blank">https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc</a><br>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
> <a href="mailto:idc-request@mailman.thing.net">idc-request@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
><br>
> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
> <a href="mailto:idc-owner@mailman.thing.net">idc-owner@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
><br>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
> than "Re: Contents of iDC digest..."<br>
><br>
><br>
> Today's Topics:<br>
><br>
> 1. Fwd: Egyptian Revolution: 2nd decolonialisation for all<br>
> (David Golumbia)<br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:42:02 -0500<br>
> From: David Golumbia <<a href="mailto:dgolumbia@gmail.com">dgolumbia@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Subject: [iDC] Fwd: Egyptian Revolution: 2nd decolonialisation for all<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <AANLkTi=<a href="mailto:ih5nXaBjdofhn%2Bg0d3Ag631PFfu%2B216vGdtbi@mail.gmail.com">ih5nXaBjdofhn+g0d3Ag631PFfu+216vGdtbi@mail.gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:ih5nXaBjdofhn%252Bg0d3Ag631PFfu%252B216vGdtbi@mail.gmail.com">ih5nXaBjdofhn%2Bg0d3Ag631PFfu%2B216vGdtbi@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
> ><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> posted to nettime, but in part inspired by ulises's idc postings & almost<br>
> sent several times here re: that.<br>
><br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
> From: David Golumbia <<a href="mailto:dgolumbia@gmail.com">dgolumbia@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Date: Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:11 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: <nettime> Egyptian Revolution: 2nd decolonialisation for all<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:nettime-l@kein.org">nettime-l@kein.org</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> i have been wanting to remark for a while on a silence is not<br>
> just deafening, but revelatory. it makes these lists seem like "places to<br>
> talk about politics so long as and only in so far as you think politics are<br>
> being radically transformed by one electronic technology or another." in<br>
> such a context, the fact of resistance is more important than its success,<br>
> so that we can talk about failed uprisings as revolutions.<br>
><br>
> the members of the various lists you mention are among the smartest and<br>
> most<br>
> attentive people i know in the world. Obviously nettime, idc, aoir, etc.,<br>
> are not forums for discussion of world politics. Yet their transient dips<br>
> into such topics (like those of mass media pundints) come to seem both<br>
> interested and strangely quietist. "we're interested in your<br>
> revolution/catastrophe/big political change if it is fueled by<br>
> twitter/facebook/AJAX and if one government or another uses the internet to<br>
> access or block parts of the huge political conversation; otherwise, don't<br>
> care much."<br>
><br>
> very few of the egyptian protestors appear to be using electronic devices<br>
> when they are protesting, even as our pundints narrate over the pictures<br>
> with stories about facebook transforming the political fabric.<br>
><br>
> this is not to deny the role of various forms of social media in all forms<br>
> of political activity. it is to ask what exactly are we talking about, and<br>
> in what way do we see our discussion itself as contributing to contemporary<br>
> politics?<br>
><br>
> DG<br>
> <a href="http://uncomputing.org" target="_blank">uncomputing.org</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Armin Medosch <<a href="mailto:armin@easynet.co.uk">armin@easynet.co.uk</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > the silence on nettime regarding the Tunisian and Egyptian revolutions<br>
> > is really deafening. is it that the vanguard of net-criticism has<br>
> > nothing to say when a genuine people's movement is rearing it's<br>
> > hydra-like head?<br>
> ><br>
> > justifiedly a few voices have been heard here and on IDC condemning the<br>
> > viewpoint that this is a #twitterrevolutuion or facebookrevolution. such<br>
> > media-centric viewpoints, as much as they are propounded by Western<br>
> > commentators, are old-hat indeed.<br>
> ><br>
> > It is telling that the media-centric vanguards (netcriticism,<br>
> > transmediale, IDC, etc.) have very little to say in this situation.<br>
> ><br>
> > The Mass Intelligence of the people of Egypt shows that there is an<br>
> > alternative. Although the outcome is not yet clear, and any genuine<br>
> > renovation of a grassroots democratic idea is bound to run into<br>
> > organised resistance by capitalists and religious autocrats alike, the<br>
> > current example should invigorate all who are looking for genuine<br>
> > change. It is definitely a 'moment in history'<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > (some of the ideas and notions put forward in this posting have been<br>
> > developed in collaboration with Brian Holmes in the technopolitics<br>
> > project)<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> --<br>
> David Golumbia<br>
> <a href="mailto:dgolumbia@gmail.com">dgolumbia@gmail.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> David Golumbia<br>
> <a href="mailto:dgolumbia@gmail.com">dgolumbia@gmail.com</a><br>
> -------------- next part --------------<br>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
> URL:<br>
> <a href="http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110203/a62d06aa/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110203/a62d06aa/attachment.html</a><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> iDC mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:iDC@mailman.thing.net">iDC@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc" target="_blank">https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Institute for Distributed Creativity (iDC)<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> <a href="http://www.distributedcreativity.org" target="_blank">www.distributedcreativity.org</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> The research of the Institute for Distributed Creativity<br>
> (iDC) focuses on collaboration in media art, technology,<br>
> and theory with an emphasis on social contexts.<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
><br>
><br>
> End of iDC Digest, Vol 73, Issue 6<br>
> **********************************<br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <a href="http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110204/43b6153e/attachment-0001.htm" target="_blank">http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110204/43b6153e/attachment-0001.htm</a><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 12:58:51 -0500<br>
From: Nicholas Mirzoeff <<a href="mailto:nmirzoeff@gmail.com">nmirzoeff@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [iDC] on networks and revolutions<br>
To: iDC list <<a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E7BF6DC4-6DF1-407C-8EE4-FA275CEA64CD@gmail.com">E7BF6DC4-6DF1-407C-8EE4-FA275CEA64CD@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi--as a long-time lurker on this somewhat scary list, I venture to offer a link to my blog post on visuality in the North African 'Networked Revolution': <a href="http://nicholasmirzoeff.com/RTL" target="_blank">http://nicholasmirzoeff.com/RTL</a><br>
<br>
thanks for this stimulating discussion<br>
<br>
Nicholas Mirzoeff<br>
Department of Media, Culture and Communication,<br>
NYU,<br>
239 Greene St, 7th floor<br>
New York, NY 10012<br>
<a href="http://www.nicholasmirzoeff.com" target="_blank">http://www.nicholasmirzoeff.com</a><br>
Nicholas Mirzoeff<br>
Department of Media, Culture and Communication,<br>
NYU,<br>
239 Greene St, 7th floor<br>
New York, NY 10012<br>
<a href="http://www.nicholasmirzoeff.com" target="_blank">http://www.nicholasmirzoeff.com</a><br>
<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <a href="http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110203/bb2f649c/attachment-0001.htm" target="_blank">http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110203/bb2f649c/attachment-0001.htm</a><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 10:00:05 -0500<br>
From: Judith Rodenbeck <<a href="mailto:jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu">jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [iDC] <nettime> Egyptian Revolution: 2nd<br>
decolonialisation for all<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:0D6AFE45-A8D3-46C2-B54A-67F17D83C475@sarahlawrence.edu">0D6AFE45-A8D3-46C2-B54A-67F17D83C475@sarahlawrence.edu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
"Most of" the people in Tahrir Square are NOT journalists/bloggers! And they are communicating with hands and voices, giving the conditional lie to the notion that demonstrations don't matter. The self-involvement of "new media" folk is breathtaking.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Feb 4, 2011, at 7:27 AM, sumandro wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> Why are people on streets in Cairo are tweeting and claiming hashtag spaces? Only because most of them are journalists/bloggers and they require the global audience for their living? How does tweeting from the streets change their experiences and future experiences of those streets?<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 10:29:42 -0500<br>
From: Saul Ostrow <<a href="mailto:sostrow@cia.edu">sostrow@cia.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [iDC] <nettime> Egyptian Revolution: 2nd<br>
decolonialisation for all<br>
To: Judith Rodenbeck <<a href="mailto:jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu">jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu</a>>, idc<br>
<<a href="mailto:idc@mailman.thing.net">idc@mailman.thing.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:C9718596.27459%25sostrow@cia.edu">C9718596.27459%sostrow@cia.edu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Remember Judith thisis america were you do not have to go to washing to protest things like war, the threatened repeal of health care, or financial misconduct - you discuss it on line and act outraged in the safety of your home - the Eyptians, Tunsians, Iranians, the Chinese, Yeminites and Palestianians once they have the infra =structure will be able to do the same thing - what unfortunate people they are<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/4/11 10:00 AM, "Judith Rodenbeck" <<a href="mailto:jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu">jrodenbe@sarahlawrence.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
"Most of" the people in Tahrir Square are NOT journalists/bloggers! And they are communicating with hands and voices, giving the conditional lie to the notion that demonstrations don't matter. The self-involvement of "new media" folk is breathtaking.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Feb 4, 2011, at 7:27 AM, sumandro wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> Why are people on streets in Cairo are tweeting and claiming hashtag spaces? Only because most of them are journalists/bloggers and they require the global audience for their living? How does tweeting from the streets change their experiences and future experiences of those streets?<br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
iDC -- mailing list of the Institute for Distributed Creativity (<a href="http://distributedcreativity.org" target="_blank">distributedcreativity.org</a>)<br>
<a href="mailto:iDC@mailman.thing.net">iDC@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
<a href="https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc" target="_blank">https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc</a><br>
<br>
List Archive:<br>
<a href="http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/" target="_blank">http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/</a><br>
<br>
iDC Photo Stream:<br>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/idcnetwork/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/idcnetwork/</a><br>
<br>
RSS feed:<br>
<a href="http://rss.gmane.org/gmane.culture.media.idc" target="_blank">http://rss.gmane.org/gmane.culture.media.idc</a><br>
<br>
iDC Chat on Facebook:<br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2457237647" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2457237647</a><br>
<br>
Share relevant URLs on <a href="http://Del.icio.us" target="_blank">Del.icio.us</a> by adding the tag iDCref<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <a href="http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110204/a5734f46/attachment.htm" target="_blank">http://mailman.thing.net/pipermail/idc/attachments/20110204/a5734f46/attachment.htm</a><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
iDC mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:iDC@mailman.thing.net">iDC@mailman.thing.net</a><br>
<a href="https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc" target="_blank">https://mailman.thing.net/mailman/listinfo/idc</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Institute for Distributed Creativity (iDC)<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="http://www.distributedcreativity.org" target="_blank">www.distributedcreativity.org</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
The research of the Institute for Distributed Creativity<br>
(iDC) focuses on collaboration in media art, technology,<br>
and theory with an emphasis on social contexts.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
End of iDC Digest, Vol 73, Issue 9<br>
**********************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br>