Hi Philipp,<br>Thanks for weighing in. What do you see as being the most feasible sustainability models for a learner-driven future of education? In other words, how do we do it on our own, without the corporations? A few ideas:<br>
-Do individual teachers charge for teaching, helping you put together a learning plan, evaluating your learning, or some other service? <br>-Do peer-driven networks strike out for public funding? National and state governments seem inclined to support at least the production of open educational resources.<br>
-Do they form development teams to continue to solicit private donations and foundation grants on an ongoing basis?<br>-Should a network strive to produce and sell valuable intellectual property or other products as part of its learning activities? (a workshop model, a design collective, a small press publishing house)<br>
-Or is the best bet to keep the whole enterprise small scale enough that everyone, learners and facilitators can do it in their free time, while supporting themselves through other means? <br>a<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Philipp Schmidt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philipp@p2pu.org">philipp@p2pu.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
It might be useful to discuss what the academy delivers today rather<br>
than the ideas behind it. My feeling is that a lot of what Anya speaks<br>
about resonates with the original principles and values of the<br>
university - and a culture of learning.<br>
<br>
The university is a crucially important institution in our modern<br>
history, but it has many challenges and resists change. I'd rather see<br>
this change coming form self-learners and edupunks, than from<br>
corporations trying to maximize revenue within the current structures.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
P<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
On 8 August 2011 03:08, Simon Biggs <<a href="mailto:simon@littlepig.org.uk">simon@littlepig.org.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi Anya<br>
> Given that teaching is only a proportion of what education is about, and<br>
> undergraduate teaching a small proportion of that, I wonder how you see the<br>
> larger socio-economics of education working?<br>
> The main work of higher education institutions is research, the making of<br>
> knowledge. Most of the work involved in this is undertaken by academics and<br>
> research students (who will be the next generation of academics). Whilst<br>
> there are questions to be answered, as to how efficient universities are at<br>
> doing this work, this is and will remain expensive work. In the US this work<br>
> is paid for by a mixture of corporate and state funding. In Europe the<br>
> investment overwhelmingly by the State.<br>
> Research is done for is own sake but also contributes to the cultural,<br>
> economic and industrial development of a society. It also provides the<br>
> context for the teaching of undergraduate and postgraduate students. If you<br>
> are an undergraduate at an institution that is not research focused you may<br>
> not be aware of how central research is to higher education but even in<br>
> teaching oriented institutions there is usually some research going on.<br>
> Generally, although not always, the more research going on in a department<br>
> the better the department. There are many factors involved in why this is<br>
> so, a major one being the money that research brings in, paying for<br>
> resources and the academics who will, when not doing research, do some<br>
> teaching.<br>
> For research focused institutions it is not unthinkable that teaching be<br>
> removed from their activities. Undergraduate teaching, at least in the UK,<br>
> is generally unprofitable, if not loss-making. Not having to spend resources<br>
> on teaching could save some institutions a lot of money and allow them to<br>
> get on with their main work, research. If self-education was to become a<br>
> successful movement, that resulted in most students deciding to not attend<br>
> university, many institutions would not find this a problem and some would<br>
> financially benefit.<br>
> However, to remove teaching from higher education is to miss the point of<br>
> what higher education is about. The university is about creating a culture<br>
> where the making and sharing of knowledge is the focus. Students benefit<br>
> from studying in an environment where the people who develop and implement<br>
> the infrastructure around them are the experts in their field - not just<br>
> knowledgeable of the subject but determining the extent of that subject.<br>
> Even when students have little direct contact with these people they are<br>
> nevertheless benefiting from being in the same environment. Similarly,<br>
> students bring new ideas and priorities into the institution, constantly<br>
> renewing the environment, sometimes in very unexpected ways. Some of them<br>
> will progress to be the next generation of academics.<br>
> If one considers learning to be the only function of education then your key<br>
> question could be reasonable and the sort of answers you propose might be<br>
> viable. However, as education is about so much more I wonder how you propose<br>
> to assure the future health of a sector of our culture that many would<br>
> accept is essential to the overall health of our society. Your vision of<br>
> education, focused on what's in it for the student and how what they learn<br>
> can fulfil their needs, could, in this context, be considered dangerously<br>
> instrumentalist, reducing education to simple training and skills<br>
> acquisition.<br>
> best<br>
> Simon<br>
><br>
> On 8 Aug 2011, at 00:00, Anya Kamenetz wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Marco,<br>
> Thanks for your response.<br>
> My basic feeling is that the ideas contained in the word "edupunk" are too<br>
> important to remain in the subculture indefinitely. I wrote the guide for a<br>
> bright person of little means, at 17 or 25 or 35 years old, to help them<br>
> answer the question, "What can I do RIGHT NOW to learn what I need to know,<br>
> to accomplish the goals I set for myself, to take charge of my own destiny<br>
> both educationally and personally?"<br>
> For a large proportion of people right now--as for a large proportion, if<br>
> not the entirety, of the people on this list--that journey will include<br>
> earning a credential from a recognized institution. In the future, there<br>
> will be more alternatives, which is why I include a tutorial and sections on<br>
> "demonstrating value to a network" of practitioners, aka joining a community<br>
> of practice, which I represent as being as important as any diploma.<br>
> As for the "wider field of power relations." I'm not naive about this. Let<br>
> me break it down from experience. People in the for-profit higher ed world<br>
> have been cordial, but back off when I state in no uncertain terms that I<br>
> think their models are rife with fraud, corruption, and exploitation; The<br>
> Edupunks' Guide explains that for-profit and online education are not<br>
> synonymous, which many students don't understand, and warns students off the<br>
> former.<br>
> Independent innovators in the open education world I largely count as allies<br>
> and I believe the feeling is mutual.<br>
> The folks representing and supporting public higher education in this<br>
> country, like the American Association of State Colleges and Universities,<br>
> and some people in the Department of Ed, and not a few community college<br>
> leaders across the country, have been quite friendly to what I'm saying.<br>
> They want to figure out ways to use technology to give students more<br>
> options, better learning experiences, and of course to cut down on runaway<br>
> costs. Government cuts to higher education are the reality of the world we<br>
> live in, and DIY approaches can help maximize the resources that remain. The<br>
> people on this list have been lamenting the state of the humanities; I<br>
> believe that the DIY approach can also help heal the rift that has opened<br>
> between mainstream society and the academy because it connects students'<br>
> experience in the classroom more closely to the broader world.<br>
> So who's really uncomfortable with what I'm saying and how I'm saying it? A<br>
> small subset of academics. People whose paychecks are currently signed by<br>
> the academy. People for whom the transformation of education is a matter of<br>
> academic interest in the narrow sense--you may be interested in informal,<br>
> uncodable and untranslatable forms of self-learning, Marco, but there is no<br>
> indication on RateMyProfessor.com that you refuse to give grades or<br>
> credits.<br>
> <a href="http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=865558" target="_blank">http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=865558</a><br>
> So let me ask all of you who play by the academic rules whilst researching<br>
> and theorizing the transformation of the academy--is that really punk rock?<br>
> a<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Marco Deseriis <<a href="mailto:deseriim@newschool.edu">deseriim@newschool.edu</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi,<br>
>><br>
>> When I read the title of the book, I immediately thought this was yet<br>
>> another example of how (formerly radical) subcultures are put to work to<br>
>> valorize and bring the practices of everyday life under capital.<br>
>><br>
>> It would be interesting to know whether and how the author of this book<br>
>> addresses this potential contradiction. Personally, I see punk and other<br>
>> oppositional subcultures as expressing and disclosing forms of life and<br>
>> self-learning that are powerful precisely because they are informal,<br>
>> uncodified and untranslatable into student credits.<br>
>><br>
>> In this case, there is also the additional risk that the DIY attitude may<br>
>> be mobilized as a form of endorsement "from below" of the rising online<br>
>> education industry sponsored by Republican governors such as Tim Pawlenty<br>
>> and Rick Perry. Or even worst to justify government cuts to spending in<br>
>> lower and higher education. After all, if we no longer need schools to learn<br>
>> why should we use taxpayers money for education? I am sure Anya has all the<br>
>> best intentions, but every reform movement falls into a wider field of power<br>
>> relations that should not be overlooked or underestimated, IMHO.<br>
>><br>
>> This could be an interesting conversation and I am looking forward to<br>
>> hearing what Anya and other iDCers have to say.<br>
>><br>
>> Marco Deseriis<br>
>><br>
>> Marco Deseriis, PhD<br>
>> Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow<br>
>> Department of Culture and Media<br>
>> Eugene Lang | The New School<br>
>> 65 West 11th Street<br>
>> New York, NY 10011<br>
>> Email: <a href="mailto:deseriim@newschool.edu">deseriim@newschool.edu</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 8/5/11 12:36 PM, Stephen Downes wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> It would be better to quote Jim quoting Jim.<br>
>><br>
>> In any case, the use of the term is probably still wrong.<br>
>><br>
>> And those of us actually working in the field now talk about someone<br>
>> coming along and "pulling a Kamenetz" - appropriating our work and making it<br>
>> some kind of pro-business thing.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -- Sent from my Palm Pre<br>
>> ________________________________<br>
>> On 4 Aug 2011 11:15 p.m., Anya Kamenetz <<a href="mailto:anyaanya@gmail.com">anyaanya@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Quoting Mike Caulfield, quoting Jim:<br>
>><br>
>> "I often take credit... for this concept of Edupunk. I put out a term. And<br>
>> within 24 hours Mike Caulfield had theoretically made that term relevant,<br>
>> and [he] actually exploded it. I took all the credit, but actually<br>
>> Mike Caulfield made it sensible." -- Jim Groom, May 12, 2010, in his<br>
>> introduction to my plenary at UMW Faculty Academy.<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Stephen Downes <<a href="mailto:stephen@downes.ca">stephen@downes.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> For the record, Jim Groom didn't "help" coin the term 'edupunk', he<br>
>>> coined it, pure and simple, by himself, not "helping" some undesignated<br>
>>> other.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The major popularizers of the term were probably Gardner Campbell and<br>
>>> myself, which is why we were the ones on the SXSW edupunk panel eith Jim.<br>
>>><br>
>>> We have our disagreements, but I think we'd all agree that if Jim says a<br>
>>> use of the term is incorrect, it probably is.<br>
>>><br>
>>> -- Stephen<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -- Sent from my Palm Pre<br>
>>> ________________________________<br>
>>> On 3 Aug 2011 9:09 a.m., Anya Kamenetz <<a href="mailto:anyaanya@gmail.com">anyaanya@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hello all!<br>
>>> I was asked to try to start up a discussion for this week. This happens<br>
>>> to be the week that my new e-book is being released, titled The Edupunks'<br>
>>> Guide to a DIY Credential. It's the first-ever book underwritten by the<br>
>>> Gates Foundation, and a follow-up to my 2010 book DIY U. Where DIY U made<br>
>>> historical, economic and political arguments about the future of education,<br>
>>> this is a guidebook. The premise is that learners who are curious and<br>
>>> lacking in resources (money, time, physical access to a campus) can use the<br>
>>> guide to create the future of education for themselves right now, by writing<br>
>>> a personal learning plan, recruiting mentors and a personal learning network<br>
>>> of peers, participating in online communities, and using open courseware.<br>
>>> There are also profiles of a variety of institutions, organizations, and<br>
>>> networks that specialize in catering to the needs of learners who are<br>
>>> nontraditional in some way, and helping them to do all of the above and in<br>
>>> many cases receive accreditation for learning done in nontraditional ways<br>
>>> and contexts. The writing style is simple and assumes little prior knowledge<br>
>>> of anything, even Google.<br>
>>><br>
>>> As a guidebook, the arguments made by this book are implicit. One is that<br>
>>> anyone can be an edupunk, as long as they feel their needs are not being met<br>
>>> by the current education system. Among those who have objected to this<br>
>>> appropriation of the term is Jim Groom, who helped coin it (although Mike<br>
>>> Caulfield, another person instrumental in popularizing the term, agrees with<br>
>>> my usage).<br>
>>> Another is that rather than engage directly with reforming the system,<br>
>>> change can be made by learners pursuing their own goals with the resources<br>
>>> available to them now. One of the more prosaic changes I'd like to see is<br>
>>> for colleges to review their prior learning, portfolio credit, and transfer<br>
>>> credit policies to allow more students to receive credit for learning<br>
>>> achieved in open environments. I believe this might happen if more students<br>
>>> were aware of the options and petitioned their colleges to accept these<br>
>>> credits.<br>
>>><br>
>>> You can download the PDF here:<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide" target="_blank">http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide</a> and an e-reader compatible<br>
>>> plain-text version here <a href="http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/77938" target="_blank">http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/77938</a>. In a<br>
>>> couple weeks there will be a better-looking Kindle version and an<br>
>>> EdupunksGuide.org site with community features launches in September.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'd love to hear what people think about the implicit arguments I've<br>
>>> articulated here and anything else you find worthy of note in the book<br>
>>> itself.<br>
>>> Thanks so much,<br>
>>> Anya<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> New ebook! The Edupunks' Guide<br>
>>> Fast Company column Life In Beta<br>
>>> Tribune Media column The Savings Game<br>
>>> Book DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of<br>
>>> Higher Education<br>
>>> Blog DIYUbook.com<br>
>>> Twitter @Anya1anya<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> New ebook! The Edupunks' Guide<br>
>> Fast Company column Life In Beta<br>
>> Tribune Media column The Savings Game<br>
>> Book DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of Higher<br>
>> Education<br>
>> Blog DIYUbook.com<br>
>> Twitter @Anya1anya<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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> --<br>
> New ebook! The Edupunks' Guide<br>
> Fast Company column Life In Beta<br>
> Tribune Media column The Savings Game<br>
> Book DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of Higher<br>
> Education<br>
> Blog DIYUbook.com<br>
> Twitter @Anya1anya<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> <a href="mailto:s.biggs@ed.ac.uk">s.biggs@ed.ac.uk</a> | Edinburgh College of Art | University of Edinburgh<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><b><span style="color:rgb(51, 204, 255)">New ebook!</span></b><b> </b><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide" target="_blank">The Edupunks' Guide</a><b><br>
Fast Company column</b> <a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/user/anya-kamenetz" target="_blank">Life In Beta</a><br><b>Tribune Media column</b> <a href="http://www.tmsfeatures.com/columns/business/personal-finance/savings-game/" target="_blank">The Savings Game</a><br>
<b>Book</b> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Education/dp/1603582347" target="_blank">DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of Higher Education </a><br><b>Blog</b> <a href="http://diyubook.com/" target="_blank">DIYUbook.com </a><br>
<b>Twitter </b><a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/anya1anya" target="_blank">@Anya1anya</a><br><br>