Hi Simon,<br>What happens to research in a radically decentralized, unbundled universe of education. Great question. A couple of responses in no particular order.<br>1) I make no apologies for focusing in my writing on the needs of students. Somebody has to. Hopefully this is part of a collaborative vision of the future.<br>
2) It's been my observation that learning that takes place in connected environments tends to involve knowledge production at earlier ages and in a much more vital way than the current academic establishment. This is the community of practice model: meaningful peripheral participation. An outlier example is the 8 to 10 year olds in science class in Britain who conducted and published, in a scientific journal, a study on bees: <a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=low-grade-science-primary-school">http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=low-grade-science-primary-school</a><br>
Thus a DIY approach would seem to be good news for research writ large. We might see knowledge producing activities distributed more widely across groups in society and not remaining the sole province of full time academics. <br>
3) It's interesting that you look at undergrad teaching as a loss leader, that may be so in the UK. In the US the data I've seen is the opposite: undergrad programs particularly in the humanities are thought to cross-subsidize research and PHD students. <br>
4) Federal, nonprofit & private grants are all important in funding research and underwriting expansion for universities. Since, as you say, research clearly contributes to the cultural, economic and industrial development of a society, there's no reason to think it won't continue to be supported by the same actors for the same reasons, even if the configurations of institutions were to change. <br>
5) A glaring issue in the relationship between the research-producing activities of universities and their undergraduate teaching functions is the casualization of academic labor--that is the overreliance on underpaid teaching assistants and post-doc adjuncts to do the teaching while highly paid tenure track professors have lower teaching burdens and more research responsibilities. The job market for humanities PHDs, in particular, in the United States is abysmally bad: <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2300107/">http://www.slate.com/id/2300107/</a><br>
Economics would suggest that one way of getting at this problem would be to shrink PHD programs. If instead universities hired a smaller number of better-paid, more securely employed teaching specialists, people who alongside their expertise in their field and research interests had actually studied pedagogy, and with the tech skills to teach students more efficiently and effectively, I don't see that being bad for education. Do you?<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 6:08 AM, Simon Biggs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@littlepig.org.uk">simon@littlepig.org.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi Anya<div><br></div><div>Given that teaching is only a proportion of what education is about, and undergraduate teaching a small proportion of that, I wonder how you see the larger socio-economics of education working?</div>
<div><br></div><div>The main work of higher education institutions is research, the making of knowledge. Most of the work involved in this is undertaken by academics and research students (who will be the next generation of academics). Whilst there are questions to be answered, as to how efficient universities are at doing this work, this is and will remain expensive work. In the US this work is paid for by a mixture of corporate and state funding. In Europe the investment overwhelmingly by the State.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Research is done for is own sake but also contributes to the cultural, economic and industrial development of a society. It also provides the context for the teaching of undergraduate and postgraduate students. If you are an undergraduate at an institution that is not research focused you may not be aware of how central research is to higher education but even in teaching oriented institutions there is usually some research going on. Generally, although not always, the more research going on in a department the better the department. There are many factors involved in why this is so, a major one being the money that research brings in, paying for resources and the academics who will, when not doing research, do some teaching.</div>
<div><br></div><div>For research focused institutions it is not unthinkable that teaching be removed from their activities. Undergraduate teaching, at least in the UK, is generally unprofitable, if not loss-making. Not having to spend resources on teaching could save some institutions a lot of money and allow them to get on with their main work, research. If self-education was to become a successful movement, that resulted in most students deciding to not attend university, many institutions would not find this a problem and some would financially benefit.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However, to remove teaching from higher education is to miss the point of what higher education is about. The university is about creating a culture where the making and sharing of knowledge is the focus. Students benefit from studying in an environment where the people who develop and implement the infrastructure around them are the experts in their field - not just knowledgeable of the subject but determining the extent of that subject. Even when students have little direct contact with these people they are nevertheless benefiting from being in the same environment. Similarly, students bring new ideas and priorities into the institution, constantly renewing the environment, sometimes in very unexpected ways. Some of them will progress to be the next generation of academics.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If one considers learning to be the only function of education then your key question could be reasonable and the sort of answers you propose might be viable. However, as education is about so much more I wonder how you propose to assure the future health of a sector of our culture that many would accept is essential to the overall health of our society. Your vision of education, focused on what's in it for the student and how what they learn can fulfil their needs, could, in this context, be considered dangerously instrumentalist, reducing education to simple training and skills acquisition.</div>
<div><br></div><div>best</div><div><br></div><div>Simon</div><div><br></div><div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><div><div>On 8 Aug 2011, at 00:00, Anya Kamenetz wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">Hi Marco,<div>Thanks for your response. </div>
<div>My basic feeling is that the ideas contained in the word "edupunk" are too important to remain in the subculture indefinitely. I wrote the guide for a bright person of little means, at 17 or 25 or 35 years old, to help them answer the question, "What can I do RIGHT NOW to learn what I need to know, to accomplish the goals I set for myself, to take charge of my own destiny both educationally and personally?"</div>
<div><br></div><div>For a large proportion of people right now--as for a large proportion, if not the entirety, of the people on this list--that journey will include earning a credential from a recognized institution. In the future, there will be more alternatives, which is why I include a tutorial and sections on "demonstrating value to a network" of practitioners, aka joining a community of practice, which I represent as being as important as any diploma. </div>
<div><br></div><div>As for the "wider field of power relations." I'm not naive about this. Let me break it down from experience. People in the for-profit higher ed world have been cordial, but back off when I state in no uncertain terms that I think their models are rife with fraud, corruption, and exploitation; The Edupunks' Guide explains that for-profit and online education are not synonymous, which many students don't understand, and warns students off the former. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Independent innovators in the open education world I largely count as allies and I believe the feeling is mutual. </div><div><br></div><div>The folks representing and supporting public higher education in this country, like the American Association of State Colleges and Universities, and some people in the Department of Ed, and not a few community college leaders across the country, have been quite friendly to what I'm saying. They want to figure out ways to use technology to give students more options, better learning experiences, and of course to cut down on runaway costs. Government cuts to higher education are the reality of the world we live in, and DIY approaches can help maximize the resources that remain. The people on this list have been lamenting the state of the humanities; I believe that the DIY approach can also help heal the rift that has opened between mainstream society and the academy because it connects students' experience in the classroom more closely to the broader world. </div>
<div><br></div><div>So who's really uncomfortable with what I'm saying and how I'm saying it? A small subset of academics. People whose paychecks are currently signed by the academy. People for whom the transformation of education is a matter of academic interest in the narrow sense--you may be interested in informal, uncodable and untranslatable forms of self-learning, Marco, but there is no indication on <a href="http://RateMyProfessor.com" target="_blank">RateMyProfessor.com</a> that you refuse to give grades or credits. </div>
<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=865558" target="_blank">http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=865558</a></div><div><br></div><div>So let me ask all of you who play by the academic rules whilst researching and theorizing the transformation of the academy--is that really punk rock? </div>
<div>a</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Marco Deseriis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:deseriim@newschool.edu" target="_blank">deseriim@newschool.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi,<br>
<br>
When I read the title of the book, I immediately thought this was
yet another example of how (formerly radical) subcultures are put to
work to valorize and bring the practices of everyday life under
capital. <br>
<br>
It would be interesting to know whether and how the author of this
book addresses this potential contradiction. Personally, I see punk
and other oppositional subcultures as expressing and disclosing
forms of life and self-learning that are powerful precisely because
they are informal, uncodified and untranslatable into student
credits. <br>
<br>
In this case, there is also the additional risk that the DIY
attitude may be mobilized as a form of endorsement "from below" of
the rising online education industry sponsored by Republican
governors such as Tim Pawlenty and Rick Perry. Or even worst to
justify government cuts to spending in lower and higher education.
After all, if we no longer need schools to learn why should we use
taxpayers money for education? I am sure Anya has all the best
intentions, but every reform movement falls into a wider field of
power relations that should not be overlooked or underestimated,
IMHO.<br>
<br>
This could be an interesting conversation and I am looking forward
to hearing what Anya and other iDCers have to say.<br>
<br>
Marco Deseriis<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">Marco Deseriis, PhD
Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow
Department of Culture and Media
Eugene Lang | The New School
65 West 11th Street
New York, NY 10011
Email: <a href="mailto:deseriim@newschool.edu" target="_blank">deseriim@newschool.edu</a>
</pre><div><div></div><div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/5/11 12:36 PM, Stephen Downes wrote:
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div></div><div>It would be better to quote Jim quoting Jim. <br>
<br>
In any case, the use of the term is probably still wrong.<br>
<br>
And those of us actually working in the field now talk about
someone coming along and "pulling a Kamenetz" - appropriating our
work and making it some kind of pro-business thing.<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Prelude, Verdana, san-serif"><br>
<br>
</span><span>
<div style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;color:#999999">-- Sent from my Palm Pre</div>
<br>
</span><span style="color:navy;font-family:Prelude, Verdana, san-serif">
<hr style="width:75%" align="left">On 4 Aug 2011 11:15 p.m.,
Anya Kamenetz <a href="mailto:anyaanya@gmail.com" target="_blank"><anyaanya@gmail.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
Quoting Mike Caulfield, quoting Jim:<br>
<span style="border-collapse:collapse;font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>"I often take credit... for this concept of Edupunk. I
put out a term. And within 24 hours Mike <span style="background-color:rgb(34, 160, 211);color:rgb(206, 226, 234);background-repeat:initial initial">Caulfield</span> had theoretically made
that term relevant, and [he] actually exploded it. I took
all the credit, but actually Mike <span style="background-color:rgb(34, 160, 211);color:rgb(206, 226, 234);background-repeat:initial initial">Caulfield</span> made
it sensible."</i> -- Jim Groom, May 12, 2010, in his
introduction to my plenary at UMW Faculty Academy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Stephen
Downes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stephen@downes.ca" target="_blank">stephen@downes.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
For the record, Jim Groom didn't "help" coin the term
'edupunk', he coined it, pure and simple, by himself, not
"helping" some undesignated other.<br>
<br>
The major popularizers of the term were probably Gardner
Campbell and myself, which is why we were the ones on the
SXSW edupunk panel eith Jim.<br>
<br>
We have our disagreements, but I think we'd all agree that
if Jim says a use of the term is incorrect, it probably is.<br>
<br>
-- Stephen<br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Prelude, Verdana, san-serif"><br>
<br>
</span><span>
<div style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;color:#999999">
-- Sent from my Palm Pre</div>
<br>
</span><span style="color:navy;font-family:Prelude, Verdana, san-serif">
<hr style="width:75%" align="left">
<div>
<div>On 3 Aug 2011 9:09 a.m., Anya Kamenetz
<<a href="mailto:anyaanya@gmail.com" target="_blank">anyaanya@gmail.com</a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
Hello all!<br>
I was asked to try to start up a discussion for this
week. This happens to be the week that my new e-book
is being released, titled The Edupunks' Guide to a DIY
Credential. It's the first-ever book underwritten by
the Gates Foundation, and a follow-up to my 2010 book
DIY U. Where DIY U made historical, economic and
political arguments about the future of education,
this is a guidebook. The premise is that learners who
are curious and lacking in resources (money, time,
physical access to a campus) can use the guide to
create the future of education for themselves right
now, by writing a personal learning plan, recruiting
mentors and a personal learning network of peers,
participating in online communities, and using open
courseware. There are also profiles of a variety of
institutions, organizations, and networks that
specialize in catering to the needs of learners who
are nontraditional in some way, and helping them to do
all of the above and in many cases receive
accreditation for learning done in nontraditional ways
and contexts. The writing style is simple and assumes
little prior knowledge of anything, even Google. <br>
<br>
As a guidebook, the arguments made by this book are
implicit. One is that anyone can be an edupunk, as
long as they feel their needs are not being met by the
current education system. Among those who have
objected to this appropriation of the term is Jim
Groom, who helped coin it (although Mike Caulfield,
another person instrumental in popularizing the term,
agrees with my usage). <br>
Another is that rather than engage directly with
reforming the system, change can be made by learners
pursuing their own goals with the resources available
to them now. One of the more prosaic changes I'd like
to see is for colleges to review their prior learning,
portfolio credit, and transfer credit policies to
allow more students to receive credit for learning
achieved in open environments. I believe this might
happen if more students were aware of the options and
petitioned their colleges to accept these credits. <br>
<br>
You can download the PDF here:<a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide" target="_blank">
http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide</a> and
an e-reader compatible plain-text version here <a href="http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/77938" target="_blank">http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/77938</a>.
In a couple weeks there will be a better-looking
Kindle version and an<a href="http://edupunksguide.org/" target="_blank">
EdupunksGuide.org</a> site with community features
launches in September.<br>
<br>
I'd love to hear what people think about the implicit
arguments I've articulated here and anything else you
find worthy of note in the book itself.<br>
Thanks so much,<br>
Anya<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<b><span style="color:rgb(51, 204, 255)">New ebook! </span></b><a href="http://goog_1627357189/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">The
Edupunks' Guide</span></a><b><a href="http://diyubook.com/2011/07/now-available-for-free-download-the-edupunks-guide/" target="_blank"> </a><br>
Fast Company column</b> <a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/user/anya-kamenetz" target="_blank">Life In Beta</a><br>
<b>Tribune Media column</b> <a href="http://www.tmsfeatures.com/columns/business/personal-finance/savings-game/" target="_blank">The Savings Game</a><br>
<b>Book</b> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Education/dp/1603582347" target="_blank">DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the
Coming Transformation of Higher Education </a><br>
<b>Blog</b> <a href="http://diyubook.com/" target="_blank">DIYUbook.com
</a><br>
<b>Twitter </b><a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/anya1anya" target="_blank">@Anya1anya</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
<b><span style="color:rgb(51, 204, 255)">New ebook!</span></b><b>
</b><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide" target="_blank">The Edupunks' Guide</a><b><br>
Fast Company column</b> <a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/user/anya-kamenetz" target="_blank">Life In Beta</a><br>
<b>Tribune Media column</b> <a href="http://www.tmsfeatures.com/columns/business/personal-finance/savings-game/" target="_blank">The Savings Game</a><br>
<b>Book</b> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Education/dp/1603582347" target="_blank">DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming
Transformation of Higher Education </a><br>
<b>Blog</b> <a href="http://diyubook.com/" target="_blank">DIYUbook.com </a><br>
<b>Twitter </b><a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/anya1anya" target="_blank">@Anya1anya</a><br>
<br>
</span>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><b><span style="color:rgb(51, 204, 255)">New ebook!</span></b><b> </b><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide" target="_blank">The Edupunks' Guide</a><b><br>
Fast Company column</b> <a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/user/anya-kamenetz" target="_blank">Life In Beta</a><br><b>Tribune Media column</b> <a href="http://www.tmsfeatures.com/columns/business/personal-finance/savings-game/" target="_blank">The Savings Game</a><br>
<b>Book</b> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Education/dp/1603582347" target="_blank">DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of Higher Education </a><br><b>Blog</b> <a href="http://diyubook.com/" target="_blank">DIYUbook.com </a><br>
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<br>Simon Biggs | <a href="mailto:simon@littlepig.org.uk" target="_blank">simon@littlepig.org.uk</a> | <a href="http://www.littlepig.org.uk" target="_blank">www.littlepig.org.uk</a></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;min-height:16px">
<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><a href="mailto:s.biggs@ed.ac.uk" target="_blank">s.biggs@ed.ac.uk</a> | Edinburgh College of Art | University of Edinburgh</div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
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</span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><b><span style="color:rgb(51, 204, 255)">New ebook!</span></b><b> </b><a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/60954896/EdupunksGuide" target="_blank">The Edupunks' Guide</a><b><br>
Fast Company column</b> <a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/user/anya-kamenetz" target="_blank">Life In Beta</a><br><b>Tribune Media column</b> <a href="http://www.tmsfeatures.com/columns/business/personal-finance/savings-game/" target="_blank">The Savings Game</a><br>
<b>Book</b> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Education/dp/1603582347" target="_blank">DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of Higher Education </a><br><b>Blog</b> <a href="http://diyubook.com/" target="_blank">DIYUbook.com </a><br>
<b>Twitter </b><a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/anya1anya" target="_blank">@Anya1anya</a><br><br>