[iDC] iDC Digest, Vol 77, Issue 5

Mon Jul 4 07:32:48 UTC 2011

To Mark Coole. I do get your point, Mark. I think that the central point of your argument is 'the internet as it is now' and I totally agree that the information that is free and available on the internet is at the present not comparable with what the books offer. I also think that is it a must for the public libraries to ensure that ebooks are/will be available as a public good distributed through internet based services. Actually, the distribution of knowledge in digital formats through internet has the potential of being a much easier and more democratic access for most people and with a carbon footprint that is nowhere near that of the book distribution. 

Rolf Hapel

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Is there a future for the pubklic (mark cooley)
   2. Re: iDC Digest, Vol 76, Issue 15 (Rolf Hapel)
   3. Is there a future for the pubklic libraries? (Kevin Moquin)

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 05:48:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: mark cooley <flawedart at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [iDC] Is there a future for the pubklic
To: idc at mailman.thing.net
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	<1309697287.56513.YahooMailClassic at web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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The description of a public library as a internet cafe of sorts is totally depressing. Perhaps this would work if the internet wasn't actually, well... "the internet". As it is now, the web is more like television than a book. I am continually astounded at what I CANNOT actually find on the web (at least without paying somebody). Last time this happened I walked down to the tiny library in my town and found multiple books on the subject I was researching. There is not anywhere near the depth of information on the web as there is in books - even in a small library. Also, I've never opened a book and had a hundred annoying advertisements jump out at me!

Best,

Mark

> 
> Hi Anya,
> 
> I can recognize your description of public library functionalities as 
> being free internet caf?es and afterschool gathering places for 
> children also from Danish experiences, but - depending of course to a 
> certain degree of the nature of the community - also as a democratic 
> space for meetings, workshops, gatherings, gaming, learning and 
> listening much of which is organized by civic society activists in the 
> community. I look forward to read about the LearnerWeb in your e-book.
> 
> Rolf
> 
> Fra: Anya Kamenetz [mailto:anyaanya at gmail.com]
> Sendt: 1. juli 2011 18:24
> Til: Rolf Hapel
> Cc: Janet Hawtin; Jessica F. Lingel; idc at mailman.thing.net
> Emne: Re: [iDC] Is there a future for the pubklic libraries?
> 
> The way I see libraries functioning most vibrantly in communities 
> today, at a moment of transition, is as free Internet cafes for 
> lower-income people and afterschool gathering places for children.
> In my new ebook The Edupunks' Guide (expected release in
> August) I talk about a really interesting program called LearnerWeb, 
> which is a guided online personal learning plan experience for people 
> whose goals include learning English, learning to read, or getting a 
> GED. http://www.learnerweb.org/infosite/
> People generally interact with the LearnerWeb website in a 
> semi-supervised situation like an adult literacy center, social 
> services center, and yes, a library.
> Anya
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:19 AM, Rolf Hapel 
> <hapel at aarhus.dk<mailto:hapel at aarhus.dk>>
> wrote:
> Hi Janet,
> 
> Thank you for your comments. I agree that the change of format 
> ultimately is changing the business models of publishing, thus has an 
> enormous effect of the business model of the libraries. Copyright 
> issues are at the core of this development. I believe that your 
> reflection on the library as a future repository or space which can 
> host culturally important data over longer time spans ending with a 
> (big) question mark is very relevant! The need for preserving valuable 
> cultural and polical data is obvious, but it is in my mind not a task 
> for the public library to do that, it must be national repositories 
> that harvest that kind of digital information. The possibility of 
> having networks of libraries host contemporary digital media content 
> (or maybe access to digital media content through metadata 
> repositories) is certainly a possibility - that's what we are doing in 
> Denmark.
> 
> Rolf
> 
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: Janet Hawtin 
> [mailto:lucychili at gmail.com<mailto:lucychili at gmail.com>]
> Sendt: 30. juni 2011 12:50
> Til: Jessica F. Lingel
> Cc: Rolf Hapel
> Emne: Re: [iDC] Is there a future for the pubklic libraries?
> 
> Hullo
> 
> I am one of the new library sector students.
> 
> My concern about the shift in paper owned resources to linked or 
> subscribed digital resources is largely because it changes the kind of 
> access rights users have because copyright is a shifting target.
> Format shift brings with it a shift from ownership of an object to 
> tenancy with a hosting site.
> You also need to keep paying to keep accessing.
> 
> Sometimes it also means that the library is less seen as a space which 
> can host culturally important data over longer time spans? I think the 
> refresh rate of government websites for example will mean it is 
> difficult to compare changing government policies over some years as 
> old data is deleted and replaced with the latest perspectives.
> Perhaps libraries can still host that kind of longer perspective?
> Perhaps libraries can hold self published zines, local content, local 
> books.
> It would be interesting if networks of libraries became more 
> authoritative and integrated as hosting organisations for digital 
> media as content in other hosting sites may well only be there while 
> it is profitable and not offer a longer term cultural asset.
> 
> A comfy chair and a net connection are passive aspects of information 
> delivery in that they are only able to deliver relevant information if 
> the wider network has chosen to host the data and it is accessible 
> from that network.
> 
> My initial thoughts anyway =)
> 
> Janet
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> 
> --
> Fast Company column Life In 
> Beta<http://www.fastcompany.com/user/anya-kamenetz>
> Tribune Media column The Savings 
> Game<http://www.tmsfeatures.com/columns/business/personal-finance/savi
> ngs-game/> Book DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming 
> Transformation of? Higher Education 
> <http://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformation-Educati
> on/dp/1603582347> Blog DIYUbook.com <http://diyubook.com/> Twitter 
> @Anya1anya<http://twitter.com/#%21/anya1anya>
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> End of iDC Digest, Vol 77, Issue 4
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> 

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 18:03:58 +0000
From: Rolf Hapel <hapel at aarhus.dk>
Subject: Re: [iDC] iDC Digest, Vol 76, Issue 15
To: "'idc at mailman.thing.net'" <idc at mailman.thing.net>
Message-ID:
	<F86C5B0F5A1A4846B13C84226BFC018801710F at SRVEXCHMBX03.adm.aarhuskommune.dk>

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This is truly interesting, Shannon. Your suggestion that it is difficult (if not impossible) to think about libraries apart from epistemology is probably completely true, the difficult part then is to figure out what the content of the current or rather upcoming epistemology will be and then translate that into a praxis in the library. And I tend to agree in your idea of an epistemology privileging the integration of thinking and making, thus creating libraries that incorporates public gathering spaces (which most public libraries do) and flexible spaces that accommodate access to and production of media in multiple formats. Important then to provide a broad variety of space for people meeting, discussing, working together, expressing themselves, performing and producing in various formats - now and here in the analogue world.

Rolf 

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Sendt: 30. juni 2011 17:04
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Emne: iDC Digest, Vol 76, Issue 15

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Is there a future for the pubklic libraries? +
      epistemology vs. pedagogy (Shannon Mattern)
   2. Re: Is there a future for the public library (Rolf Hapel)
   3. Re: Is there a future for the pubklic libraries? (john sobol)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 02:41:29 -0400
From: Shannon Mattern <shannon at wordsinspace.net>
Subject: Re: [iDC] Is there a future for the pubklic libraries? +
	epistemology vs. pedagogy
To: idc at mailman.thing.net
Message-ID: <3C54A9C1-2C96-4E69-BF8D-689A0C456030 at wordsinspace.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

What a happy coincidence that Liz Losh and John Sobol are discussing shifting epistemologies at the same time that Rolf Hapel is inquiring about the future of public libraries. Liz describes the difficulty of separating epistemology and pedagogy; I?d suggest that it?s equally difficult to think about libraries apart from epistemology. Libraries are institutional embodiments of the prevailing ? and at times competing ? knowledge systems of their times and places.  

There?s been an ongoing conversation, to which Anne Balsamo has made really valuable contributions, about the integration of hackerspaces or techshops into libraries. Critics tend to see these production facilities as outside, and perhaps even inimical to, the core function of a library (as if libraries were ever purely intellectual institutions ? as if the rifle ranges, barber shops, and bowling alleys in Carnegie libraries supported their ?knowledge-provision? functions!). But of course this judgment is based on the privileging of a particular (literate, rational?) epistemology. What if, instead, we were to privilege the integration of thinking and making, bricolage, embodied and social knowledge, etc.: what kind of an institution would represent that epistemology? Probably a library that incorporates public gathering spaces (which most public libraries do) and flexible spaces that accommodate access to and production of media in multiple formats.

Others have proposed that the library could and should be an institution that draws attention to the *politics* of knowledge, that encourages patrons to question the interests of those creating and distributing information ? and those providing the infrastructure for its creation and distribution. Of course techshops, and even the media production facilities that currently exist in some public libraries, serve as sites of ?democratized? media production. Digital distribution?s more tricky. Some folks ? including one of my students, Rory Solomon ? have been investigating how the public library might become home to a ?truly public? internet.

Access will continue to be an issue, although those of us with the means and inclination to participate in a mailing list like this one tend to forget it. Libraries will continue to serve people who don?t have Internet access at home and who can?t afford books ? let alone smartphones or Kindles. And even for those who do have the financial means to gain access, at home or on their own devices, to all the info their hearts desire, the library could still serve an important role in providing *context* for that information. Whether people want that context is another question. Adrian Johns, in a recent presentation at Columbia University, said that librarians advocate for themselves as professionals who perform important skills-based, critical educational roles. Of course they *should* (there seems to have always been an implied morality at the heart of the library) perform those roles, and of course people should avail themselves of these ?information mediation? services. But w
   ill they?

I?ve found in my own research that publics tend to be most invested in their public libraries when they?re meaningfully involved in their operations ? when they?re invited into discussions regarding design, programming, acquisitions, etc. (I know Rolf has done a good deal of this at Aarhus; I studied public involvement in Seattle.) In these cases, the ?public? refers not only to the audience the institution serves, but also to the stakeholders who shape the institution into what it is.

Shannon Mattern, The New School
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:25:47 +0000
From: Rolf Hapel <hapel at aarhus.dk>
Subject: Re: [iDC] Is there a future for the public library
To: "idc at mailman.thing.net" <idc at mailman.thing.net>
Cc: "mailto:digitalculture at newschool.edu"
	<digitalculture at newschool.edu>
Message-ID:
	<F86C5B0F5A1A4846B13C84226BFC0188010539 at SRVEXCHMBX03.adm.aarhuskommune.dk>

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Thank you, Anne, for your inspiring thoughts on the future of the public library.  I really look forward to reading your coming book. The idea of the library becoming a process space for the practice of culture making in the framework of an open participatory learning network is great and very much in line with the thinking of our "Urban MediaSpace" -project, where we allocate plenty of physical space for all kinds of workshops, labs etc. to be used by the general public, partners, research and knowledge industry. Your image of a mash-up between various types of learning institutions to explain your vision makes me reflect on our thinking of the generalized 'mash-up library', a metaphor for the fact that the services of the library in the future will come from a variety of non-library sources including the users themselves.

And thank you, Jessica, for your rich entry - I will look through the links later, despite your warning :-). Your description of the library as a place that instills the ethics and values of the local community is undoubtedly true in US and UK, but hasn't been that clear in the rest of Europe. However, it has become more relevant to think of the library as community space and a lot of efforts have gone into the development of 'third spaces' for interpersonal connections, where one of the highlights are found in e.g. the relatively new main library in Amsterdam. In Denmark, the deconstruction of the traditional public library has led to a concept of 'Citizens Center' where third sector volunteer activities meets public sector services including library services. The label 'public library' is still preserved, though.

Cheers
Rolf

Rolf Hapel
Director

________________________________

[Logo]

CITIZENS' SERVICES AND LIBRARIES
City of Aarhus
City Hall, 8000 Aarhus C
Denmark
Phone +45 89 40 93 00
Mobile +45 29 20 83 56

________________________________

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:27:19 -0400
From: john sobol <john at johnsobol.com>
Subject: Re: [iDC] Is there a future for the pubklic libraries?
To: idc <idc at mailman.thing.net>
Message-ID: <EF1AD2BB-AAB0-45DB-842B-FA72ED5F8164 at johnsobol.com>
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Great description Anne, and Shannon yours is inspiring as well, along the same lines. What interests me is how these ideas can be realized.  
For my part I have been occasionally flogging a detailed business plan for a place that pretty much exactly matches your description below for almost a decade. And this is after having built and run something called Globalhood, a digital playground for at-risk youth, from 1999-2002. It was clear at that time that the sort of mashed-up learning environment you're describing was the way to go, but based on my lack of success in raising money for a business based on these ideas it doesn't seem to have been obvious to anyone else. At least not to the people I've talked to.

Or it might be fairer to say that although some of them have loved the idea, all have balked at the capital costs involved in building real-world infrastructure like this, because it obviously does not come cheap. So my question is - apart from the excellence of your vision, which I wholeheartedly support - where do you see the money coming from for the massive investment that would be required to transform libraries into spaces such as you describe? In the current economic climate my concern is that funding - be it local or federal, private or public - is not readily available, and nor is the political will to impose such bold social (and epistemological) innovations. Rolf, how has this played out in Denmark and Holland?

I do think such places will come into being sooner rather than later, and probably in a very popular format. But my own take is that if libraries are to assume this mantle they will have to move fast, both because every day that they do not change diminishes their social influence, and more importantly, because this sort of mashed-up learning/production space can just as easily come out of any of a dozen other industries. Libraries are competing with the whole world in this respect, and if someone else gets there first and establishes this model, what will libraries change into then?

Anyway, I am not meaning to be a downer, since obviously the work described by participants here is exactly what is needed, but I do want to add these practical concerns to the mix. I don't think we can rely on 'a civic-minded Carnegie Foundation of the future', which is why my version of this place has a sustainable learning economy built into it. (If anyone wants a look drop me a line).

I think libraries are ideally suited to fulfill the role you have described below, Anne, and I would like to see them do it, but I tend to think this sort of change may have to come from elsewhere.  
(Possibly Anya's book about DIY learning will reveal some of these locii). I'd be happy to be proven wrong though, because it would mean there was a massive and intelligent alignment around progressive social priorities in corporate boardrooms, library offices, union halls and city councils. But sorry experience (not quite cynicism) leads me to wonder if this is possible, at least anywhere beyond the Shangri-la's for adventurous learning that Holland and Denmark always appear to be.

Regards,
John

--
www.johnsobol.com

On 29-Jun-11, at 2:09 PM, Anne Balsamo wrote:

>
> I take up this question in my new book in a chapter called  
> ?Designing Learning.?   I imagine a future of public libraries  
> where they function as a mixed-reality community based ?making space? 
> (or tinkering space), where the mission is not only the stewardship 
> and circulation of cultural infoartifacts of various forms (books, 
> maps), but also the community?s ?garage? where members hang out to 
> mess around with tools (which could be loaned) and materials (which 
> could be ?harvested? from local basements and
> garages) in face-to-face cross-generational creative projects 
> (references to Ito?s work is intentional).  Shelf resources are 
> considered evocative knowledge objects...not just ?books? or 
> concretized media forms.  The library becomes a process space for the 
> practice of culture making.  Young ones learn how to sew, elders learn 
> how to edit video.  All would be supported by a back-
> end social networking interest-learning match-making application.   
> Think Telic?s Public School mashed up with the Menlo Park Tech Shop 
> supported by some sort of civic-minded Carnegie Foundation of the 
> future interested in creating the brick and mortar infrastructure of 
> an Open Participatory Learning Network.
>
> Book will be out in a week or so:
>
> Designing Culture: The Technological Imagination at Work (Duke)
>
> Anne Balsamo
>

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End of iDC Digest, Vol 76, Issue 15
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 11:42:18 -0400
From: Kevin Moquin <kevin.moquin at gmail.com>
Subject: [iDC] Is there a future for the pubklic libraries?
To: idc at mailman.thing.net
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	<CADWQLYHU2oDjwkWRfZVs8XJObATL0rWVjhRUndF3rA+Vi+k_hw at mail.gmail.com>
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I can see public libraries playing a major role in the transition to low-cost, self-directed learning - both for adults and children.

Online, we're beginning to see the advent of platforms for people to collaborate achieving their own educational goals. Face-to-face learning, though, should continue to be an important part of collaborative learning.
That's where I see libraries playing a role, allowing learning to be local - as well as global - and down to earth.

I can see libraries being staffed by professional and volunteer mentors who can help guide self-directed learners to the resources and knowledge necessary to meet their learning goals. Networked globally through the Web and locally through public libraries, I can see an effective system for self-directed, collaborative learning.

Great discussions taking place here.

Kevin Moquin
http://collaboratorsinlearning.blogspot.com/
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End of iDC Digest, Vol 77, Issue 5
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