[iDC] RE: An Inconvenient Youth and Second Life

Fri Mar 2 04:35:53 EST 2007

It has been some efforts to "change" the world of gaming introducing
new elements and changing the stereotypes. The company Newsgaming.com,
started by  Gonzalo Frasca, born as me in Uruguay, made the game 12th
September, an excellent simulation where target killings and the war
against terror were featured.
http://www.newsgaming.com/games/index12.htm
And Serious Games try too to modify the market and make collaborative
games aimed to the youth, http://www.seriousgames.org/index2.html
Purple Moon, Brenda Laurel and Paul Allen's company which went
bankrupt some years ago, was also a try to make games for young girls,
to fight Barbies total dominance in the field. But the commercial
picture was bad and their games took only a token share of the market.
As far I remember the only really "collaborative" game I played was
Tale of the Desert, http://www.atitd.com/, a game based in training
skills and acquiring the old Egyptian skills and technology. The
problem with the game is the lacking of storyline, dramaturgy or
interaction with the game engine.
'By the way, Gonzalo Frascas site, Ludology.org, www.ludology.org is
an excellent place to discuss games as a meme able to transmit
cultural values.
Ana

On 3/2/07, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Julian and Ana. It seems that Ana was talking about 2 different
> things, which are now untangled: one market share, and the other ideological
> dominance. Neither would seem 100%.
>
> I'm not an expert on games (I don't play), but from where I live, I see
> Korean and Japanese dominance is at least as importance as U.S. In Thailand
> Ragnarok has 1 million users and uses some kind of asian medievalist
> environment. Might be patriarchal, western-influenced to some extent, but
> not exclusively.
>
> I would like to add provocatively that American-style Hollywood movies, are
> a lot less patriarchal than many Asian movies, a lot more inclusive, and
> actually have a lot of misandrous content, if you read this:
>
> http://mqup.mcgill.ca/extra.php?id=51
>
> quote: "We began this book, the first volume in a trilogy called Beyond the
> Fall of Man, by noting that many pop cultural artifacts and productions from
> the 1990s said very negative things about men."
>
> Again, as a non-expert, and after reading Joi Ito's account on the matter,
> do the new generations of games not include an increasing amount of
> cooperative logics?
>
> Michel
>
>
> On 3/1/07, Ana Valdés <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Julian, I respect your numbers and statistics but in my experience
> > almost ALL the games made "outside" the US are made with American
> > prototypes and American "memes". Yes, you can see some games made for
> > Israeli companiesm, but theyh are done in English, they have white
> > heroes and they show male heroes.
> > They can be produced "physically" outside the US but they are still a
> > part of the "American way of life".
> > In Lineage, the popular game played in Korea, the avatars have Western
> > faces. My reflection about the US dominance was the sad constatation
> > we are still reproducing an old fashioned model where
> > heteronormativity and "whitness" rule.
> > Ana
> >
> > On 3/1/07, Julian Dibbell <julian.dibbell at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Michel:
> > >
> > > The most reliable source for figures about online worlds is Bruce
> > > Woodcock's MMOGchart.com, a paradise of market data and charts that
> > > covers nearly every commercial MMO ever released. Unfortunately Bruce
> > > doesn't break things down by corporate nationality, but I did some
> > > follow-up research through Wikipedia et al, and it turns out you're
> > > right to be skeptical: The U.S. may dominate this market's supply
> > > side, but the dominance isn't even close to 100%.
> > >
> > > Here's the breakdown:
> > >
> > > There are 39 titles listed on MMOGchart.com, not counting sequels. Of
> > > those, 24 were developed by U.S. companies. That's just a little more
> > > than 60%. If you leave out U.S. games with non-U.S. publishers
> > > (France's Vivendi and Ubisoft, for instance, market several U.S.-made
> > > MMOs, as does Korea's NCSoft), the number of titles goes down to 17,
> > > or less than 45%.
> > >
> > > These numbers tell us nothing about market share, of course, but from
> > > that perspective the picture doesn't look much different. If you look
> > > at the market-share chart for subscription-based MMOs
> > > (http://www.mmogchart.com/chart7.html), you see World
> of Warcraft (a
> > > Franco-U.S. production) with a crushing 52.9%. But even with WoW
> > > pulling that much weight, U.S.-made games get only 61.3% of the
> > > market. Games developed in Korea, the U.K., Japan, Iceland, and France
> > > get 34.3% (with the remaining 3.3% swept into an unalyzable "All
> > > others" category).
> > >
> > > And keep in mind that this is only subscription-based games. There is
> > > a hugely popular class of Asian MMOs that get their revenues from item
> > > sales and so forth, and Bruce lists them separately, since it's hard
> > > to compare 'active subscribers' to the 'average concurrent users'
> > > figure typically used to measure these games. But back-of-the-envelope
> > > calculations suggest that adding these games in to the mix would
> > > create a picture in which U.S. MMOs' market share is considerably less
> > > than 50%.
> > >
> > > Finally, I'll point out that Bruce, for whatever reason, doesn't even
> > > mention several very popular online game worlds aimed at children or
> > > teens, such as Neopets, Club Penguin, and Habbo Hotel. These three
> > > come off the top of my head, and their creators are, respectively,
> > > British, Canadian, and Finnish.
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/1/07, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Would be curious to any pointers confirming that the U.S. is
> responsible for
> > > > almost 100% of computer games and online worlds ...
> > > >
> > > > Recently, someone mentioned something like 'most Africans are now
> connected
> > > > with mobile phones'. I checked, it is only 10%.
> > > >
> > > > Michel Bauwens
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2/28/07, Ana Valdés <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > That's exact my point when I refered to my short experience in SL. I
> > > > > think the US (where almost 100 procent of computer games and online
> > > > > worlds are created) has a problem with the reproduction of the
> nuclear
> > > > > family and the wishing of a kind of Barbie/Ken archetype where the
> > > > > same house, the same furniture and the same tables and chairs are
> > > > > copied or cloned.
> > > > > In SL you can find hundreds of reproductions of Le Corbusier or of
> > > > > Frank Lloyd Right, it's as the Sims (the popular computer game who
> is
> > > > > the most clear "parent" of Second Life, has discovered architecture
> > > > > and city planning.
> > > > > When you have characters who fly what's the point making stairs or
> > > > > walls? Or to design roads or motorways?
> > > > > For me SL is a kind of perverse reproduction of life but without
> > > > > death, sweat, smells or poverty.
> > > > > In Everquest, the online game I usually played for several years, I
> > > > > was playing a female avatar and  another player, a man playing
> another
> > > > > female avatar, asked me to marry "him".
> > > > > The marriage thing was a cool thing in EQ, where the weddings in the
> > > > > game were attended by guests from the whole virtual world. I have
> > > > > attended marriages between vampyres and elfs, centaurs and frogs.
> > > > > We asked the "game masters" to come and marry us, it was Sony's
> > > > > employees who acted as priests or civil servants and who performed
> the
> > > > > ceremonies.
> > > > > We got a letter, very polite, but they refused us the right to be
> > > > > married, "two women avatars can't be married. It could upset a lot
> of
> > > > > other players who could experience that as offensive".
> > > > > We, Charles, my friend, and me, could not believe what we read. We
> > > > > played as wizards and shamans, we fought demons and zombies, we
> lived
> > > > > in a fantasy world where magic and phantasy played an enormous roll.
> > > > > Did they mean that two female avatars were "not natural", but all
> the
> > > > > other stuff was it???
> > > > > We argued with them for months and we dropped the idea, but it
> > > > > strenghtened my these about online worlds as very conservative and
> > > > > oldfashioned.
> > > > > Ana
> > > > >
> > > > > ps. the description of the marriage it's a bit of my research about
> > > > > Gender in the Online Games, I am writing a book which it's going to
> be
> > > > > released in this Spring, sadly, only in Swedish and Spanish for the
> > > > > moment.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2/27/07, Brooke Knight <brooke_knight at emerson.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm an inveterate lurker on the list, but I have to pick up on
> Steven's
> > > > > > comment a few days ago about how he gave a lecture about SL, both
> in the
> > > > > > "real" world and the "virtual" world of Second Life.  We here at
> Emerson
> > > > > > College are currently engaged in the same thing -- as it is
> opening up
> > > > as an
> > > > > > educational space.  We have students cranking away at building
> what are
> > > > > > essentially avatars of our buildings.  In fact, we have an event
> > > > tomorrow,
> > > > > > where both Trebor and Ulises will be speaking at Emerson and on
> Second
> > > > Life,
> > > > > > on the Emerson College Island, Emerson Island (145, 109, 23).
> Come by
> > > > at 7
> > > > > > eastern and see if it works.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In this case, it will be inside the Bordy Theater on the island.
> In the
> > > > > > "real" world (I've never been comfortable with the distinction),
> the
> > > > Bordy
> > > > > > Theater is inside of a building alongside other buildings of the
> same
> > > > height
> > > > > > and size.  On Emerson Island, It stands out as one of the only
> objects
> > > > > > there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, I ask -- why is it that there seems to be a need to reproduce
> items
> > > > that
> > > > > > already exist? Is a replica of a real-world place the best way to
> convey
> > > > a
> > > > > > message, even if it doesn't work in SL?  How is that message
> different
> > > > in
> > > > > > SL?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm just worried that we continue to experience the tyranny of the
> > > > metaphor,
> > > > > > as we have so many times in digital media.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brooke
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brooke A. Knight
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Assistant Professor of New Media
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Department of Visual and Media Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emerson College
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 617-824-8760
> > > > > >
> > > > > > brooke_knight at emerson.edu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > www.brookeknight.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > > >
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> interview at
> > > >
> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> > > > ; video interview, at
> > > >
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> > > >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Skarpnäcks Allé 45 ll tr
> > 12833 Skarpnäck
> > Sweden
> > tel +468-943288
> > mobil 4670-3213370
> >
> >
> > "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth
> > with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you
> > will always long to return.
> > — Leonardo da Vinci
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> alternatives.
>
> Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
> http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p
>
> Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499;
> interview at
> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html;
> video interview, at
> http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/09/29/network_collaboration_peer_to_peer.htm
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by
> http://www.ws-network.com/04_team.htm

-- 
Skarpnäcks Allé 45 ll tr
12833 Skarpnäck
Sweden
tel +468-943288
mobil 4670-3213370

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you
will always long to return.
— Leonardo da Vinci